primers flattening with no other signs of pressure?

[epoletna]

That right there looks like a perfect fired primer! You might have solved your problem. Next problem: what to do with your old primers?

 

[arch408]

Excessive headspace can cause that. Preasure will force the primer out against the bolt face and when chamber preasure high enough, then the case will also be thrust back to the bolt face which will cause your primer condition.

 

[Bigeclipse]

That right there looks like a perfect fired primer! You might have solved your problem. Next problem: what to do with your old primers?

Yeah exactly. Looks like I will do a quick load work up with the Federal primers and hope for similar results lol even worse, these hammer bullets aren't cheap so I wasted like 15 dollars in bullets lol

 

[Philward]

I can try that but even the lower range of powder had the same amount of flattening as the upper I tested so either im getting early pressure signs for some reason OR maybe it is just the batch of primers or something else.

The primer cup material is soft, not problem. Seat primers fully and shoot. Try different powder maybe?

 

[johngibbs222]

Here's my 308 ppu brass, seems ok to me, not unlike yours. BTW there is no way I'd lub cases before firing them, 50 odd years ago I started reloading and the notion was to keep the shells clean and dry, both shotgun and rifled. When was the last time you felt a factory load with lub on?

 

[johngibbs222]

JUst to add to my earlier post left to right factory GGG NRA match load, PPU handload and a Federal hand load.
The primer in the ggg load is crimped in and "feels" further in than the other two.
FWIW the federal case is on its 16th reload. I only neck size as I use a Ruger #1.

 

[freddiej]

Bigeclipse,

By your description and your picture I can tell you what is wrong here. If no other person has verified this, your headspacing is too deep (AKA excessive head space) or your dies are set too short for your chamber. what is happening since this happens alot with guns that come into the shop, is your primer upon detonating is slipping partially from the primer pocket and then is being reseated with the powder charge and the stretching of the brass.

here is a list of events in order: your firing pin sends your cases to the shoulder, the primer detonates, the primer slips out to the breach-face (slightly bulging), then the cartridge because of the power of the powder charge slams back against the breach-face making that distinctive primer look.
The remedy is set your dies to fill your chamber better. this is done by using a resized case and a seated primer. after firing and extracting from your chamber: measure the primer's protrusion after it's been fired in your chamber.
put a feeler gauge between the bottom of your sizing die and your case holder and adjust it accordingly.
that distinctive primer will disappear.

 

[Bigeclipse]

Bigeclipse,

By your description and your picture I can tell you what is wrong here. If no other person has verified this, your headspacing is too deep (AKA excessive head space) or your dies are set too short for your chamber. what is happening since this happens alot with guns that come into the shop, is your primer upon detonating is slipping partially from the primer pocket and then is being reseated with the powder charge and the stretching of the brass.

here is a list of events in order: your firing pin sends your cases to the shoulder, the primer detonates, the primer slips out to the breach-face (slightly bulging), then the cartridge because of the power of the powder charge slams back against the breach-face making that distinctive primer look.
The remedy is set your dies to fill your chamber better. this is done by using a resized case and a seated primer. after firing and extracting from your chamber: measure the primer's protrusion after it's been fired in your chamber.
put a feeler gauge between the bottom of your sizing die and your case holder and adjust it accordingly.
that distinctive primer will disappear.

I tried new primers and it went away...

 

[ButterBean]

I tried new primers and it went away...

Kinda figured that, Glad you got it worked out

 

[Deleted member 107796]

My Tikka T3 lite in 308 flattens primers pretty well, all the time with no issues, handloads or off the shelf.

 

[Big Turnips]

I tried changing the bump this morning, primers are still the same flattening as before although I did notice when seating primers they were slightly too easy to seat. Can this have issue? Anyways, i will try some cci primers next

When primers are easy to sit, it's a sign of primer pocket stretch which itself is also a sign of pressure. Primer pockets should feel somewhat tight, they should have a definite feel when you seat a fresh primer.

 

[Bigeclipse]

When primers are easy to sit, it's a sign of primer pocket stretch which itself is also a sign of pressure. Primer pockets should feel somewhat tight, they should have a definite feel when you seat a fresh primer.

Yes but in this case I tried other primers and those definitely had more feeling so I'm not sure what is going on with these Winchester primers.

 

[Big Turnips]

You may have a bad batch as some have suggested. Some primers have softer cups and they're easier to fit. It's tough to tell exactly the cause, there are too many possibilities, from the case itself to the primer or the load and the resizing... Since you found primers that seem to work better, I'd stick with those.

I also wouldn't rule out Winchester primers altogether as I've had good luck with WLR primers and the old 61/2 X 120 Winchester primers. I use Federal and CCI as well and whenever I had a similar problem as you were having it was because of hotter loads and moving the cases' shoulders back too much and at times using a different make of cases, some are softer than others, however in general, the problem started with maximum loads.

The reloading manuals maximums are quite often on the softer precautionary side as they should be, but not always. I recently shot a few rounds never exceeding the maximum using all components used by the maker of the reloading manual but velocities were through the roof with no signs of pressure and with ease of extraction. The powder I used for the very first time was Reloader 17. I prefer not to get into more details but the velocity was 250 to 350 fps over the manual with a wide extreme spread. The load was also not accurate at all. Yet that same powder with a different maker's bullet and its own suggested weight charge (very close to the other), yielded excellent speeds equating those of that particular manual and one moa accuracy. Not phenomenal but good for hunting. There are no hard and fast rules in reloading. Experimentation is the only way to find what works for your rifle.

Incidentally, I reloaded the cases that showed extreme velocities and the primer pockets were tight, there were no outward or inward signs of pressure on the cases. I don't know the answer to that one but in the future, I'll stay away from that particular combination.

 

[Tommo64]

There have been a lot of similar comments on this and other forums on this and it nearly always involves Winchester primers. I have experienced it myself with them too. Apparently they have a softer cup than some of the other brands. I switched to Federal and CCI and the flattening stopped with the same loads, everything else same as before.