Powder , primers and bullits shortage
- Thread starter Walleye Steve
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You sir have lost a customer here. I don't care for your attitude or 'instructions'. Especially if this is an indication of your own morals as a company.It's never been worth it. It's only ever been a way for them to bolster numbers slightly. When they can sell every single round of loaded ammo they make, at 5x the normal price... what possible business motivation would you be citing in the board room when making your recommendation that they should hold back components to service handloaders?
A tiny fringe market that complains constantly... compared to selling billions of rounds of ammo to the complacent weekend blasters.
There isn't a discussion here. We should be thankful for what we have.
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I don't believe we should ever get to the point in America where 'we should just be thankful for what we have' as it indicates a complacent, subdued society that will let it all slip away the way Britain and Australia did.
There isn't a discussion here? What kind of eletist nonsense is that? That's akin to 'shut up and bend over, your opinion doesnt matter'.
In America when we don't like the way things are going, we work our asses off, and sacrifice everything we need to, to change it. We don't settle.
There are reasons these shortages happen and the vast majority of the people are unaware of what's going on behind the scenes at a very high level.
What we SHOULD be doing is screaming like pigs under a gate!! Complaining to no end! I'll be damned if I'm going to say 'oh well, I cant afford to shoot or have any kind of supplies anymore but I guess it was just a privelege and I'm happy I was once able to shoot my firearms.
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The operative word here being, "walked by".
I guess you only like capitalism when you're the one selling something.
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Rflshootr
Well-Known Member
Capitalism is practiced enthusiastically by capitalists, people who use capital to increase production and make more goods and money. Capitalism works by encouraging competition in a fair and open market. Its opposite is often said to be socialism. Isn't that what the Dems want? They can't get rid of the guns, so they'll make it so that only a small minority can afford it. Right now people aren't smart enough to see it coming. In 2018, just 4 years ago, I bought WLR primers for $17.15/1000. There is no way on God's green earth that the cost of manufacturing went up 500-600% in 4 years. They blame it on whatever lies they think people will swallow. People better wake up real soon.
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Supply and demand. Very simple economics that even a high school kid can understand. When items are in short supply but their demand high… their value goes up.
If the demand high enough and supply short enough, that alone will cause the cost of something to skyrocket to levels never before seen.
What's next for some of you? Try to get the government to force primer companies to sell you as many as you want?
The fair and open market says you can start your own primer company and sell primers as cheap as you want. I wonder why all the internet loud mouths haven't done exactly that?
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If the demand high enough and supply short enough, that alone will cause the cost of something to skyrocket to levels never before seen.
What's next for some of you? Try to get the government to force primer companies to sell you as many as you want?
The fair and open market says you can start your own primer company and sell primers as cheap as you want. I wonder why all the internet loud mouths haven't done exactly that?
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Rflshootr
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wardog5
Well-Known Member
You'd think if they are all working/ manufacturing as hard and long as they claimed to be working the market would be flooded by now 3 years of production ! Come on man !!! I think this lack of supply is caused by something else… I was told this was coming back in the beginning of 08 when the dems first took over so I loaded up but am starting to run lean now this is ridiculous no large rifle primers anywhere !! REALLY? there holding them back to raise prices !!! or the government is snapping them up before we get a chance to I'm calling bull sh t on this lack of supply .. you can make a ton of primers in 3 years probably close to a million a day if not more
We should get used to this. As many have noted, supply/demand will set the price. The problem is that many of you are assuming that the manufacturers are wanting to work at 100% capacity and crank out as many primers as possible. Really? Why would they do that? As an example: If I own ABC primer company, and I now have 2/3rds the staff I used to (can't find people to work at reasonable wages), but the demand is sky high, well that allows me to charge my dealers higher prices for the in-demand product. In turn, the dealers mark up their price. Of course the dealers have the same issues, lack of workers, so fewer employees to stock shelves and provide customer service. At this point you may be thinking "OK, but I've heard all this before". So now allow yourself to follow the money trail.
If I am ABC primer company, or XYZ dealer, and I have less employees, with less product available, some of my costs are reduced (less overhead due to paying less employees and holding less stock on hand). But my margins are now HUGE compared to what they used to be. So less overhead and bigger margins leads to . . . you guessed it, big profits!!
So now I ask you, where is my incentive (whether I'm the manufacturer or the dealer) to go back to "normal", with more employees, higher overhead costs, more warehouse costs, and lower margins due to higher (normal) supply? The answer is, there is NO incentive to go back to that scenario. Call it the Economy of Scarcity (trademarked . . . just kidding). Perhaps this is what Orkan is referring to above when he says capitalism. BTW, this scenario applies to many other products now, not just powder/primers. How about automobiles? Tried to get a vehicle with specific options package lately? Gotta order it, wait 6-8 weeks (if lucky), and then you will pay full sticker price, plus dealer markup because . . . they can. If you want it, your gonna pay through the nose. If you don't, the next guy will.
Have you noticed that, anecdotally, it seems like the guys that post here saying that they are able to find lots of powders and primers almost always live in very lightly populated rural areas? I live in the Phoenix metro area and when going around to LGS' in my area, there is nothing I want/need on the shelves. Lots of pistol powder and primers, but no magnum powder or large magnum primers. Employees just roll their eyes and chuckle when I ask if they have any. Like I'm asking for their availability of rainbow unicorns. If any of you live in or around metro Phoenix and know of where I can get said product, please let me know. I'll thank you in advance!!
End of minor rant.
If I am ABC primer company, or XYZ dealer, and I have less employees, with less product available, some of my costs are reduced (less overhead due to paying less employees and holding less stock on hand). But my margins are now HUGE compared to what they used to be. So less overhead and bigger margins leads to . . . you guessed it, big profits!!
So now I ask you, where is my incentive (whether I'm the manufacturer or the dealer) to go back to "normal", with more employees, higher overhead costs, more warehouse costs, and lower margins due to higher (normal) supply? The answer is, there is NO incentive to go back to that scenario. Call it the Economy of Scarcity (trademarked . . . just kidding). Perhaps this is what Orkan is referring to above when he says capitalism. BTW, this scenario applies to many other products now, not just powder/primers. How about automobiles? Tried to get a vehicle with specific options package lately? Gotta order it, wait 6-8 weeks (if lucky), and then you will pay full sticker price, plus dealer markup because . . . they can. If you want it, your gonna pay through the nose. If you don't, the next guy will.
Have you noticed that, anecdotally, it seems like the guys that post here saying that they are able to find lots of powders and primers almost always live in very lightly populated rural areas? I live in the Phoenix metro area and when going around to LGS' in my area, there is nothing I want/need on the shelves. Lots of pistol powder and primers, but no magnum powder or large magnum primers. Employees just roll their eyes and chuckle when I ask if they have any. Like I'm asking for their availability of rainbow unicorns. If any of you live in or around metro Phoenix and know of where I can get said product, please let me know. I'll thank you in advance!!
End of minor rant.
You can be a smart *** if you want, doesn't bother me. But your 'supply and demand' rug doesn't really cover the dirt. I've outlined in other posts a lilittle more about this but I just dont have time here. Simply put, there is way more at work here than simple supply and demand, especially with the primer shortage.Supply and demand. Very simple economics that even a high school kid can understand. When items are in short supply but their demand high… their value goes up.
If the demand high enough and supply short enough, that alone will cause the cost of something to skyrocket to levels never before seen.
What's next for some of you? Try to get the government to force primer companies to sell you as many as you want?
The fair and open market says you can start your own primer company and sell primers as cheap as you want. I wonder why all the internet loud mouths haven't done exactly that?
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To not be too specific, there has been much work applied to make the current situation in america- all aspects of it- politically, finnancially, with regards to freedom and rights, 2nd amendment issues, the crap going on in education (kindergarden through college), and on a social level- go the way it has. Shipping, inflation, labor shortages, vaccine mandates (if you think the bs hasnt crept inti the 2A sector, read up on the hornady vaccine mandate debacle) the list goes on.
A blind man can see it, and the ones that claim there's nothing to see are in on it.
We keep asking: where ARE the primers going? They're not getting sold in large number to anyone here, that they're admitting. Loaded ammo is mostly just sitting on the shelves everywhere I've been and with the retailers I've talked to. People are mostly waiting out the prices.
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And with one wave of your meme hand, you've summarily dismissed any arguments here. Right.
I guess you only like capitalism when you're the one selling something.
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No, I'm all for capitalism. Its what makes people get off their asses and get to work. If you want something, you get up and work for it.
But what were seeing is an attack on the free market by regulations thay make it impossible for new businesses to start in certain sectors, such as gunpowder.
Last time i checked, I'm allowed to complain. Or am I? It really seems to bother you. Why?
I also speak with my pocket book.
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Rflshootr
Well-Known Member
I agree with you.....except for 1 little point. You can't make people go to work to better themselves and earn what they want if you give them a free ride. Of course, that doesn't happen in this country.
Rflshootr
Well-Known Member
You missed one small point here. If XYZ dealer only has 1 case of primers to sell and he marks it up 300-400% of his cost, he's not making as much profit as if he had 10 cases of primers to sell at 100% margin. If he can't get the supply from ABC primer company, he can't sell them to anyone and make the profit that he would have with more stock.
