Powder advice

[Idgunner]

I've reloaded a LOT of handgun ammo over the last 40 years. Mostly 44 mag for myself and others. I recently became interested in long guns and have purchased a Savage 110 .223 and a Ruger M77 Hawkeye 25-06. The 25-06 is accurate enough with Remington factory ammo but the .223 is giving me fits. Each different bullet weight and manufacturer hit at WAAY different points of impact. Worse is that so far I have not identified one manufactured round that gives me an acceptable group. My best at 100 yards is about 3 inches. It sux.

So, I'm thinking about buying a reloader and start making my own. Paying close attention to detail. Clean primer pockets, trimmed cases, accurate powder charge. Bullet seating depth and finished OAL proximity to the rifle lands. My suspicion is that I will have to go with a heavier bullet than I have been shooting so far. I'm looking at bullet weights from 62 to 69 grains.

My question, for those of you who have lots of experience with reloading the .223 with several different powders, is which powder would be the best overall to experiment with? After playing with an online reloading spreadsheet it appears that Varget would be a good choice. Can anyone confirm that or give me a good argument for another powder?

I appreciate your time.

 

[FearNoWind]

My Remington XR-100 .223 shoots bugholes with 50 grain Nosler Spitzers on top of 25.9 grains of H335 with cases trimmed to 1.765 and a CBOL of 1.914. Ground squirrels sound the alarm when they see that rifle being set up in the field.
Your results may vary ..............

 

[JOHNNIE WALKER]

Found myself in situation similar to yours. I have a model 10 savage 260rem. The 260 is limited in factory ammo but I was hoping for the best. Most factory loads were in the 2"-3" range. This really scared me. HSA and Southwest make match grade ammo that took it down to 1". But that still scared me. When I started to reload for it, I discovered that the rifle had a very deep throat. I adjusted my loads accordingly and now it shoots .5 when I do my part.

 

[Grumulkin]

I've reloaded a LOT of handgun ammo over the last 40 years. Mostly 44 mag for myself and others. I recently became interested in long guns and have purchased a Savage 110 .223 and a Ruger M77 Hawkeye 25-06. The 25-06 is accurate enough with Remington factory ammo but the .223 is giving me fits. Each different bullet weight and manufacturer hit at WAAY different points of impact. Worse is that so far I have not identified one manufactured round that gives me an acceptable group. My best at 100 yards is about 3 inches. It sux.

So, I'm thinking about buying a reloader and start making my own. Paying close attention to detail. Clean primer pockets, trimmed cases, accurate powder charge. Bullet seating depth and finished OAL proximity to the rifle lands. My suspicion is that I will have to go with a heavier bullet than I have been shooting so far. I'm looking at bullet weights from 62 to 69 grains.

My question, for those of you who have lots of experience with reloading the .223 with several different powders, is which powder would be the best overall to experiment with? After playing with an online reloading spreadsheet it appears that Varget would be a good choice. Can anyone confirm that or give me a good argument for another powder?

If you have had problems with the ammunition from multiple manufacturers and with different bullet weights with your best group only being 3 inches, I suspect the problem is with the gun and not the ammo.

I have a 13 year old grandson who has a Savage in 223 Remington. He was a little unhappy with about 2 inch groups. I let him try some of my reloads with BLC(2) with 55 grain Bergers and he shot a 5 shot group measuring about 0.5 inches.

There is another load I use in several rifles one of which has a 1:10 twist. It's Nosler 77 grain BTHP Match bullets over RL-15. It will do about 0.6 to 0.7 inches.

Some of the things you mention like clean primer pockets won't make much (probably no) difference. As long at they're not too long, trimming cases to equal length doesn't make any difference. If your magazine will allow it, getting a bullet close to the lands is good but in the rifles I shoot, I have to take what the magazine allows which is off the lands.

I have, by the way, tried multiple powders in the 223 Remington; probably including Varget. I have abandoned all except BLC(2) and RL-15.

 

[Greyfox]

My high accuracy target load for my 223's is Lapua brass, 69gr SM, CCI Br4 primer, 25 gr Varget. This round shoots accurately in all my 1:9 twist, 223 rifles. Varget has worked well for me with 55-69gr bullets.

 

[Idgunner]

Thanks for the replies gents. It looks like I will just have to start buying powder and bullets to work up an acceptable load because everyone is different in some way.

Does Varget meter accurately through a powder measure? I have a Dillon for my handguns and plan to buy a Dillon 550 for my long guns.

 

[g0rd0]

If you think that there may be a chamber issue take 2 fired and sized cases empty without a primer and lube the inside of the neck put a bullet in each neck just enough to hold in place and chamber 1 now do the same with a different rifle. What is the oal difference? If the "dummy" that was from your rifle is say 20 thou longer than that is your issue.
Reload 5 with the bullets seated 20 thou shorter than your "dummy" then 5 25 thou and 5 30 thou shorter. You should be able to find a tight group
Keep records off all shots from your rifle I include in my record book (1 for each firearm),

for factory ammo, brand, weight, bullet type and lot number also the group size

for reloads I list the powder (incl lot number), the primer (incl lot number), the bullet (incl lot number) the brass, weather I FL or neck sized OAL and group size

Example
Nov 13, 2014
fired 20 rnds 150 grn sp lot #xxxxx
xx.x grn IMR7828 lot #xxxxxx
CCI mag primer lot #xxxxx
F.C. neck sized & trimmed 2.250"
OAL 3.340"
groups 3/4", 1", 3/4", 1+", -1" & -3/4"
2 fouling shots
total rnds fired to date 1149
If your rifle cannot achive good accuracy and you have kept records then IMHO Savage will want to know

 

[Idgunner]

If you think that there may be a chamber issue take 2 fired and sized cases empty without a primer and lube the inside of the neck put a bullet in each neck just enough to hold in place and chamber 1 now do the same with a different rifle. What is the oal difference? If the "dummy" that was from your rifle is say 20 thou longer than that is your issue.
Reload 5 with the bullets seated 20 thou shorter than your "dummy" then 5 25 thou and 5 30 thou shorter. You should be able to find a tight group
Keep records off all shots from your rifle I include in my record book (1 for each firearm),

for factory ammo, brand, weight, bullet type and lot number also the group size

for reloads I list the powder (incl lot number), the primer (incl lot number), the bullet (incl lot number) the brass, weather I FL or neck sized OAL and group size


If your rifle cannot achive good accuracy and you have kept records then IMHO Savage will want to know

I was wondering how I was going to determine the distance to the lands and I really appreciate this tip.
Your instructions seem to indicate, unless I'm reading wrong, that I would want to load the bullets so that they are 25, 30 and 35 thousands AWAY from the lands. Have I got that right?

 

[eshorebwhntr]

Thanks for the replies gents. It looks like I will just have to start buying powder and bullets to work up an acceptable load because everyone is different in some way.

Does Varget meter accurately through a powder measure? I have a Dillon for my handguns and plan to buy a Dillon 550 for my long guns.

Varget will meter ok in the Dillon setup...mine floated +/- 0.1 when I did spot checks. Win 748 has metered the best in my experience...75 spot checks in 500 round lot were dead on. Had really really good groups out of an LWRC M6 at 100 yards with the 69 SMK and win748. Never checked velocity on a chrono. It was a safe load and super accurate so I wasn't going to chase a chronograph just to beat my chest about velocity.

Good luck.

 

[Idgunner]

Win 748. Thanks!

 

[manitou210]

I was wondering how I was going to determine the distance to the lands and I really appreciate this tip.
Your instructions seem to indicate, unless I'm reading wrong, that I would want to load the bullets so that they are 25, 30 and 35 thousands AWAY from the lands. Have I got that right?

For me no jump works best just kissing lands is best

 

[Idgunner]

I'm afraid that my attempts to load close to the lands may be for naught. When I do, the bullets are seated quite a ways out but still fit in the magazine. The problem is that the magazine spring kicks the bullets up so far that they do not feed into the chamber. Grrrrrrr. Unless there is a way that I can safely cut down the magazine spring to prevent this problem I will need to load to standard COAL.

Very nice group by the way. Congrats

 

[Idgunner]

YES! It has been a looooong road for me but I'm finally seeing results.

The first thing I did was get rid of the factory tomato stake that Savage called a barrel and replaced it with a 26 inch McGowan varmint barrel with an 8 twist. Then we bedded the action and I put on a new Vortex scope and a Savage target spring in the Accu Trigger.

Then, lots of trial and error and reading up on reloading methods, brass prep etc. Now, the new barrel can stack 55 gr V-Max into a 3/8 inch hole at 100 yards. Three days ago I started wondering if my scope had enough adjustment to reach out with my fav load, 75 gr A-Max over CFE223. Ballistics calculations told me that it did. I only needed 27MOA of adjustment to hit the target at 840 yards. (that is the max distance that we have targets at the range)

Today I took the rifle to the range to try out the rifle, scope, handload combination and was able to hit a one gallon milk jug after just a few shots to dial in the scope at 840 yards!! WooHoo!! I'm finally there! gun)

 

[RT2506]

I have found that if you will full length size a case and then take a cutting tool, hacksaw etc., and cut a line from the case mouth down to where the neck meets the shoulder then clean up the burrs and then run it back through the FL sizer before each use works better. You can put a bullet in the case with your fingers just enough to hold it then carefully place it in the chamber and close the bolt. Carefully open the bolt and extract the case and measure from ogive to base of case. With this method the bullet is pushed back into the case when it just touches the lands and will not be jammed into the lands at all giving you a false reading. I usually do this 3 or 4 times with just to be sure of my measurements. With this method you can pull the bullet out of the case with your fingers and use it over again. When done measuring you pull the bullet out and then load it up and shoot it with no bullets wasted.