OK I'm going to learn how to use MOA instead of a custom dial. Scenario Questions
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Don A Parsons
Well-Known Member
Yes,,, don't over think it at first,,, start off simple and build into it...
I started with the home made ballistic cards from JBM that you can print off for free...
Then adjust them later to match your combination...
Simple Easy and Fast...
Then make your own to match the ammo you plan on shooting...
I find it wize to keep everything the same till I know the trajectory by memory from 100 to 600,,, then add to it later on waaaaay out past that...
Good times for sure
Don
I started with the home made ballistic cards from JBM that you can print off for free...
Then adjust them later to match your combination...
Simple Easy and Fast...
Then make your own to match the ammo you plan on shooting...
I find it wize to keep everything the same till I know the trajectory by memory from 100 to 600,,, then add to it later on waaaaay out past that...
Good times for sure
Don
For a 650 yard shot with a 15mph wind and you think "hold top of back" is the right answer, haha. No offense, but maybe you should learn more, shoot more, and give less advise.
Sound like you want a range finder with most complete solution.The br7 does it,the Sig 2400 abs does it,the Lieca 2800 does at that range.I might missed a few that are complete system.Nothing is a wind absolute. Ive mainly ran good LR,range cards,sharpie marker dropes on my stock,I dont care.And I bust rocks all time where I hunt In the spots I hunt,sometimes just to stir it up.That would be a dead elk for me Forgot,Im a MIL guy heh
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There are lots of ways to do this. But I am with you on your approach.
I hunt big game with a Leupold equipped with their Long Range Varmint Ballistics Reticle. But any well designed ballistics reticle will probably work. A good ballistics reticle incorporates a scaled set of crosshairs that correspond to the general ballistics curve. They can be quite precisely calibrated for a fairly wide variety of calibers and loads.
Here is how I do it:
Let's assume that you will sight in your rifle IN THE SAME CONDITIONS AS YOUR PLANNED HUNT. This is VERY important because the environment can significantly change bullet ballistics and trajectory especially for temperature and altitude.
First I sight my rifle in to a zero of 200 yards. I chose 200 simply because this will allow me to use the ballistics crosshairs at 300, 400, 500, & 600. With my old brain, I don't want to have to memorize a weird set of numbers. Even 100s is easy. More importantly, it's hyper fast.
Next, I shoot at 400 or 500 yards using the 200 yard "zero". I DO NOT USE THE 400 OR 500 yard Crosshairs for this.
Next comes the important part. While holding the 200 yard crosshairs on the center of the target, I turn the power dial on the scope's eyepiece until the 400 or 500 yard crosshairs are centered on the middle of the 400 or 500 yard bullet group.
Lastly, I put a mark on that point of my power dial. As long as that mark is properly set, I know that I can reliably use my scope's ballistics reticle to place shots at any range for which there are crosshairs.
One can use the same principles to shoot at a wide range of distances by simply choosing different intervals - eg 50 yards or 150 yards or 200 yards instead of 100 yard intervals depending on how far you will be shooting.
You will find that this process will not be absolutely perfect, but it will be **** close. That's because the basic shape of all ballistics curves is linearly proportional to the time of the bullets flight. By using a longer range to do the calibration, you will automatically minimize errors.
This process also automatically calibrated the windage marks on a ballistics reticle.
When you hit the field, all you need is the range and the effective cross wind speed. Align the corresponding range and wind age marks, and shoot. It doesn't get faster than that.
Of course, Leupold and other scope manufacturers provide various examples of canned calibrations and cartridge groups to do the same thing in a more general way. For example the group 1 and group 2 diamonds on the magnification dial of Leupold scopes. But the math and science behind those groupings is exactly the same as I outlined above.
I also advocate the use of the Strelok Pro Ballistics Program for smart phones. It's a great ballistics program in its own right. But more than that, the author has also gone to great pains to incorporate every known scope and reticle available in the retail market. If you find one that's missing, he will add it.
The screen shot attached is an example of how this process works using a 260 Rem zeroed at 200, calibrated at 500 yards, and then used to shoot at a white tail buck at 400 yards in a 15MPH effective crosswind. The crosshair zeros were achieved at a scope magnification of 20.5x.
I know this is all a bit confusing, but once you understand it, you will find that it works quite well and is the fastest method of getting on a field target that I know of.
I hunt big game with a Leupold equipped with their Long Range Varmint Ballistics Reticle. But any well designed ballistics reticle will probably work. A good ballistics reticle incorporates a scaled set of crosshairs that correspond to the general ballistics curve. They can be quite precisely calibrated for a fairly wide variety of calibers and loads.
Here is how I do it:
Let's assume that you will sight in your rifle IN THE SAME CONDITIONS AS YOUR PLANNED HUNT. This is VERY important because the environment can significantly change bullet ballistics and trajectory especially for temperature and altitude.
First I sight my rifle in to a zero of 200 yards. I chose 200 simply because this will allow me to use the ballistics crosshairs at 300, 400, 500, & 600. With my old brain, I don't want to have to memorize a weird set of numbers. Even 100s is easy. More importantly, it's hyper fast.
Next, I shoot at 400 or 500 yards using the 200 yard "zero". I DO NOT USE THE 400 OR 500 yard Crosshairs for this.
Next comes the important part. While holding the 200 yard crosshairs on the center of the target, I turn the power dial on the scope's eyepiece until the 400 or 500 yard crosshairs are centered on the middle of the 400 or 500 yard bullet group.
Lastly, I put a mark on that point of my power dial. As long as that mark is properly set, I know that I can reliably use my scope's ballistics reticle to place shots at any range for which there are crosshairs.
One can use the same principles to shoot at a wide range of distances by simply choosing different intervals - eg 50 yards or 150 yards or 200 yards instead of 100 yard intervals depending on how far you will be shooting.
You will find that this process will not be absolutely perfect, but it will be **** close. That's because the basic shape of all ballistics curves is linearly proportional to the time of the bullets flight. By using a longer range to do the calibration, you will automatically minimize errors.
This process also automatically calibrated the windage marks on a ballistics reticle.
When you hit the field, all you need is the range and the effective cross wind speed. Align the corresponding range and wind age marks, and shoot. It doesn't get faster than that.
Of course, Leupold and other scope manufacturers provide various examples of canned calibrations and cartridge groups to do the same thing in a more general way. For example the group 1 and group 2 diamonds on the magnification dial of Leupold scopes. But the math and science behind those groupings is exactly the same as I outlined above.
I also advocate the use of the Strelok Pro Ballistics Program for smart phones. It's a great ballistics program in its own right. But more than that, the author has also gone to great pains to incorporate every known scope and reticle available in the retail market. If you find one that's missing, he will add it.
The screen shot attached is an example of how this process works using a 260 Rem zeroed at 200, calibrated at 500 yards, and then used to shoot at a white tail buck at 400 yards in a 15MPH effective crosswind. The crosshair zeros were achieved at a scope magnification of 20.5x.
I know this is all a bit confusing, but once you understand it, you will find that it works quite well and is the fastest method of getting on a field target that I know of.
Capt RB
Well-Known Member
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In the big picture 650 yds is not a far shot. In the op wind at 60 degrees15mph is not drastic about 3.3moa for a 147 creedmore at 2760 where I hunt. A simple drop chart and a understanding of how da works you would have that in the chart for the trip. 30 seconds for 1 shot you lasered the distance and have a good wind call isn't drastic if you have put in the time at the range. Instead of sitting home when it's crappy go shoot and collect dope. You're not going to know what your combination does in the wind if you don't shoot in it.
When I was in the service didn't own a laser or wind meter or phone or chronograph or you name it. We went out and shot at distance and recorded the result in a book I still have all 4 of them.
I would highly recommend you goto a local prs match and enter. You will learn more in that one day about how to get into position some not so comfortable btw and make a shot. On this site a lot of well-seasoned shooters with outstanding equipment and years of shooting it makes things look like anyone can do it. They can with education. Education costs weather it's time or money or both. Put in the time you will be better for it. I see this with instructing. People are fine until I pull out my timer. It is amazing what that silly little beep will do to a shooter. The stress is stress no matter if a monster buck a bad guy or that silly beep. If you don't train under it the 30 second shot explained will never be made.
Wind is always present so be aware of it always for direction and speed and you have that much more time to evaluate your target.
Everyone has a phone download a timer app I use splits as it's free and works. It's for pistol shooting but it doesn't know a pistol from a rifle. It has a delay and you can make your own rules. I use it for dot drills at 100 and 200 yds. It will also show you where you break down fundamentally as you try to move faster than you are capable
When I was in the service didn't own a laser or wind meter or phone or chronograph or you name it. We went out and shot at distance and recorded the result in a book I still have all 4 of them.
I would highly recommend you goto a local prs match and enter. You will learn more in that one day about how to get into position some not so comfortable btw and make a shot. On this site a lot of well-seasoned shooters with outstanding equipment and years of shooting it makes things look like anyone can do it. They can with education. Education costs weather it's time or money or both. Put in the time you will be better for it. I see this with instructing. People are fine until I pull out my timer. It is amazing what that silly little beep will do to a shooter. The stress is stress no matter if a monster buck a bad guy or that silly beep. If you don't train under it the 30 second shot explained will never be made.
Wind is always present so be aware of it always for direction and speed and you have that much more time to evaluate your target.
Everyone has a phone download a timer app I use splits as it's free and works. It's for pistol shooting but it doesn't know a pistol from a rifle. It has a delay and you can make your own rules. I use it for dot drills at 100 and 200 yds. It will also show you where you break down fundamentally as you try to move faster than you are capable
You have to get a rangefinder that works beyond what you will be shooting. Do not buy a '1200' and expect to range an animal at 1,200 yards, too many factors to mess that up. Read ballistics charts, then go the range and shoot, shoot and shoot some more. Write down everything - temp, wind, distance, hold over or MOA adjustment, bullet, powder, primer, etc. Keep every target. Then go the to range and do it again and again. Finally, you will have your chart to tape to your stock, and the confidence in the adjustments for each range. In your scenario, do you have a spotter? They can run the range finder, you make the shot from your numbers on your stock, which you have memorized by now, and fine tuned by your actual experience shooting. When things are moving it's a whole new ball game. I bot a 6.5 Creedmoor and did all of the above for my Wyoming mtn. goat hunt. Had to keep adjusting the scope as we got closer. Finally shot him at 99 yards. It was the one and only time my scope was set to 5 power in the last 10 months. P.S. I could have carried a MUCH lighter rifle Good luck - it's the shooter, not the equipment. You have to be able to do it as you've taught yourself with all of the shooting because if time is short you cannot set up a wind meter, phone, bluetooth etc....just my practical experience. Tried all of that on a walking antelope once at 750 yards. Couldn't coordinate everything quickly enough, and had to continually adjust everything. Finally shot him at 200 yards so it worked out, but if he had been walking away and over the hills, we never would have had a shot.
Good luck - it's the shooter, not the equipment. You have to be able to do it as you've taught yourself with all of the shooting because if time is short you cannot set up a wind meter, phone, bluetooth etc....just my practical experience. Tried all of that on a walking antelope once at 750 yards. Couldn't coordinate everything quickly enough, and had to continually adjust everything. Finally shot him at 200 yards so it worked out, but if he had been walking away and over the hills, we never would have had a shot.
UplandFreak
Well-Known Member
Or you could just get one of the burris eliminator scopes and be done with all this other stuff....
When in the field how do you determine 650 yards from 770 yards?
I guess I don't get how custom dials work when it comes to density altitude
floyd kittrell
Well-Known Member
Gunwerks G7 BR 2500 and Kestrel wind meter
They don't work, that's part of the problem.
