New to reloading questions- help!

[magedon44]

Hey guys,
I just purchased a tikka T3 300 wsm and im trying to shoot sub MOA groups. I have worked up loads in .5 gr increments with rl17 starting at 65 and the whole way up to 68 gr with win brass, win mag primers and 180 gr accubond. The best i have found so far is 66 gr of rl 17 at about 3014 fps. It shot aprox anywhere from 3/4 t0 1 1/4 MOA multiple times. The other loads were all about 2 inch groups or more , the next best was 68 gr of rl 17 and 3140 FPS.. this was about 1 1/4 inch group at 100 yds. This was all done with never fired winchester brass and then i retested with the same results with my neck nezed fire formed brass, My CAOL is 2.89 inch. Im new to loading shells and im doing all the steps that i know of possible to get the best accuracy. i deburd the flash holes, neck sized, trimmed, fireformed the shells excetera and i just cant seem to get my groups consistantly under 1 inch at 100 yds. Im thinking of changing bullets and powder. I have some IMR 4350 , H380 and H4350 at the house that i can mess with. I dont know what i should be expecting from the gun at 100 yds, should all the bullets be touching? or is 1 inch groups acceptable. I keep seeing pics of guys with 1/2 moa out of tikkas but is this normal?? Im going to purchace a custom Dial From kenton industries and id like to be able to shoot out to 600-700 for my elk trip in october and im really in a pinch to find a load so i can send my balistic data out and get a turret made for my leupold 4.5 - 14 power scope in time for my hunt.


Do you guys have any suggestions on what i could do or try to get consistantly under MOA, change bullets poweder, primers, COAL, that have worked well in tikka 300 wsm?

Another thing im unsure of is... when i put and empty full length resized virgin winchester brass in my chamber is wont shut easy , is is suppose to just drop in? Once i neck size my shells they and try to chamber them they are also very snug.. i know the bullet is not hitting the lands so it has to be the case thats causing the problem,, when i drop a reloaded neck sized shell in my chamber it it does not drop in to my chmaber it stops with out 1/8 inch of the back sicking out and i have to close the bolt hard to make it chamber... im not sure if this is good or not?


Any help would be great!

 

[rscott5028]

Have a look at this thread started by a guy that's been doing it a long time...
http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f19/300-wsm-long-range-load-95086/

Always work up to a given load. But, my guess is that you should get good results somewhere close to what he settled on with his T3 300 WSM.

In any case, all rifles, ammo, and shooters aren't created equal.

You should be able to get consistent MOA. If not, then there are some things to check with respect to your rifle, optics, and technique.

Try a little searching on those topics and ask questions if you don't find what you're looking for.

Best of luck,
-- richard

 

[297joshua]

I had the same expectations as you when I started and had a hard time getting what I wanted. What I found out is, load developement is ALOT of work. If I can't get my guns to shoot under MOA, I sell them. Getting under moa with handloads is entirely possible, just takes effort. I used to use Winchester and CCI primers and a competition long range shooter I know told me to quit using them. Federal match primers are only a couple dollars more and are way more consistent. That helped a bunch. Norma or Lapua brass made a big difference. Bullet seating depths, most of my guns like the bullets seated from .050 to .100 off the lands. Then there is powder, I have a whole shelf of powder now from trying to find which one my guns like... My Vhitavitouri powders seem to be the best in all of my guns. It is a very consistent powder. Well, sit back and enjoy yourself and work on some loads. Today I went through eight different loads on my .257 Weatherby and only one was worth a crap...

 

[rscott5028]

Squeezing that last tiny bit of accuracy is a lot of work.

But, basic load development is not hard.

When using components that competition and/or well known LRH shooters prefer, it's rare that I get many groups worse than MOA from a complete ladder test going from min to max charge.

Pick a decent set of components recommended by someone with credibility and do a thorough workup tweaking only one variable at a time such as powder charge or seating depth.

If your equipment and technique is good, you will be rewarded.

-- richard

 

[Bart B]

Another thing im unsure of is... when i put and empty full length resized virgin winchester brass in my chamber is wont shut easy , is is suppose to just drop in? Once i neck size my shells they and try to chamber them they are also very snug.. i know the bullet is not hitting the lands so it has to be the case thats causing the problem,, when i drop a reloaded neck sized shell in my chamber it it does not drop in to my chmaber it stops with out 1/8 inch of the back sicking out and i have to close the bolt hard to make it chamber... im not sure if this is good or not?

The reason your sized cases don't chamber easy is the sizing die's probably not screwed down in the press far enough. Correct die position's typically when the shell holder barely touches the die's bottom when the ram's all the way to the top. Sometimes, it's better with a few thousandths clearance between the shell holder and die's bottom.

Try adjusting the die's position and see what happens.

'Tis hard to say without actually seeing the cases' fit to the rifle, but there is a solution to the problem.

 

[kcebcj]

If you have a load that shoots pretty good at 100 yards before you throw it away take it out to 200 or 300 yards and give it a go. It's been my experience that bullets like the Accubond will sometimes lie to you at 100 yards.

 

[bbutturff]

As you've most likely read, the key to accurate hand-loads is that everything MUST be consistent. One of the things that I didn't see you address in your post is neck tension. It has been my experience that consistent neck tension is very important in achieving single digit SD and ES. There are lots and lots of opinions on this but here's what works for me.

First, I anneal each and every case after every firing using 650 degree Tempilaq. As brass is fired and worked it gets a little harder and the neck tension changes. Annealing every time helps to give me the same neck tension each time.

Second, I turn the outside of the case neck to 0.014 (300 WSM) the first time and check them every time after that. I'm usually only removing brass from about 50 to 60% of the way around the neck. Once turned they shouldn't change, right? Wrong. Not much brass will be removed after the first time but they can change. I check them every time.

Third, I use a bore brush wrapped in fine steel wool to clean the inside of the case mouth. Some guys don't brush them at all and believe the residue left in the mouth is an advantage. But is the residue consistent? How do we know? With a clean case mouth I know it will be consistent.

Lastly, this has nothing to do with neck tension but it helped my groups a lot. Are you using an anti-cant device? If not, you might be surprised at how 1 or 2 degrees of cant can affect your groups. I've been shooting for over 40 years and have 29 years of military experience shooting multiple weapon systems. Many of these systems I've even qualified as an expert. But I cant a rifle to the right just a little and I don't do it consistently.

I take a lot of steps in my reloading process. Measure this, weigh that, weigh that again, sort this, cull that, clean this and clean it again. Yes, I'll admit that I even weigh and sort my primers. Some would say it's wasted time. But for me it's a hobby that I love. And I really love the look on the guy's face next to me at the range who's shooting a 22-250 when I put 8 shots through a hole you can cover with a quarter with my fat bottom girl.

Good luck,
Bruce

 

[martyj]

If you have a load that shoots pretty good at 100 yards before you throw it away take it out to 200 or 300 yards and give it a go. It's been my experience that bullets like the Accubond will sometimes lie to you at 100 yards.

I have a 300 that will do as he described. 100 yards is a little over 1 MOA and at 200 yards is .560 and 300 yards is .625

 

[Bart B]

I have a 300 that will do. . . . 100 yards is a little over 1 MOA and at 200 yards is .560 and 300 yards is .625

Every time you shoot it at those ranges?

That's rather amazing as I don't know of any bullets that both know where they are relative to the center of all trajectory paths at 100 yards and change direction back towards the down range center of trajectory paths there.

I suspect you shot a few of those bullets once at each of those ranges and just happened to have groups at those dimensions. Doing that accuracy test again would yield different results.

 

[Mikecr]

magedon44, I don't know where you picked up the idea of RL-17 for 300WSM, but it's a bad source.
It's too fast, your pressures are too high from the git-go.
At least back off to RL-19 powder speeds. Then you can get higher velocities with lower pressures.

One good check for loading ideas:
16 loads available in .300 WSM with bullet weight equal 180

You might also look at Berger's seating depth procedure(a sticky in this section of the forum).
Find best seating with a moderate load of something other than RL-17, then go to ladder testing & dial in your load.

 

[bbutturff]

I read once that RL-17 was developed for the short mags. Anyway, here's one of my successful RL-17 loads.

67.5 gr RL-17, CCI 250 primer, Sierra 180 gr Matchking, 2.90 OAL, 3030 avg FPS, ES 4, SD 7, .750 3-shot group @ 100 yards.

BTW, 66.0 gr is the published max so start low and work your way up.