New to reloading .223 Questions?? Help??

[Jamie557]

I hope someone can answer my reloading questions. Thanks in advance!!!

I am new to reloading. I started loading .223 remington for my bolt action Mossberg MVP rifle as I figured .223 would be a great starting bullet to learn from. I am limited on how far I can seat the bullet because the rifle uses a magazine.

Currently I am using this load:
.223 brass is mostly Hornady with a few American eagle. All shot once in the rifle I am reloading for. It's loaded with 55 grain Vmax bullets (#22271) using Federal match primers with Winchester 748 powder.

Case trim length 1.750 C.O.L. 2.235 Ogive 2.797 with Sinclair Comparator

Now that you know about my loads my questions are concerning how to work up a load and what is safe. I have two reloading books. They both have different data.

Lyman says 55 grain bullet with W748 powder you can go 25.0 to 27.8 grains.
Hornady says 55 grain bullet with W748 powder you can go 22.7 to 26.4 grains.

I started off with 23.5, 24.0 24.5,25.5 grains of powder to test. None notably outperformed the others. I then loaded 25.5, 26.0 and 26.5 grains to test next. The 26.5 grouped the best. My chrono speed was High 3099, Low 3042 with Average of 3051 out of 20 rounds I tested. My best group was .58 inch. My chrono reads plain hornady factory 55 grain bullets at an average of 3056. So I am just below the average speed of my factory ammo.

A friend of mine who reloads a lot and has been doing it for 25 years suggested that I load some 26.5, 27.0 and 27.5 grains to continue to ladder test. Then if 26.5 was still the best to test a couple rounds with a 26.3, 26.4 and 26.6, 26.7 grains just to see if the group tightens anymore.

My question is???? Is this safe as the Hornady manual says to stop at 26.4. My brass looks perfect. I have no over pressure signs. Why are the manuals so different?? I couldn't see Lyman printing anything that would push you into dangerous levels but is this common to be different from load to load in difference manuals? As Lyman says I can go to 27.8 grains and still be safe. Thanks for any input.

 

[g0rd0]

what you are doing is really quite safe and reasonable. Don't get caught up with velosities or what your buddy has to say about it.
If you want a 3rd opinion on loads goto Hodgdon Reloading | Home there you can choose yet even more. But, you have a load that is .58" and under max load with no signs of high preasure stick with that for now.

Most rifles like the ojive of the bullet to be around .030" from the rifling, to determine that length size 1 brass, with NO POWDER OR PRIMER, lube the inside of the neck and put a bullet into it just enough so that it will not fall out. Now chamber that ( the bolt will seat the bullet against the rifling), measure that OAL and subtract .030". That is a good OAL starting point for your rifle with that perticular bullet. When you change differant styles or bullet types that ojive to rifling will change a little, so I do this every time I go to a differant bullet.

From there I would load 5 at that OAL, then 5 at -.005" then 5 at +.005". Test fire those and you be the judge at wich OAL is best for you.

As for differant brass, stick with only 1 (like Hornady). Dont mix up differant brands the case capacities from brand to brand are differant and mixing them up can change point of impact and internal preasure. By all means keep differant brands on hand, just load only 1 brand at a time.

Keep your brass clean, and trimmed to the same length.

I am quite retentive so every fireing I deprime, clean, size &, trim always. I wiegh every charge, no exceptions. If I miss the button then I know what the problem is.

And 1 more note, this is important. Military brass "556nato" will substitute for 223rem BUT, the primers are crimped (you may break decapping pins), and the primer pockets must then have the crimp removed. Then to make matters worse the case capacity is a lot smaller so, that pet load you have for your Hornady brass will produce much higher preasure in military brass. British (and other countrys) military brass uses differant primming systems (the primer anvil is incorperated in the brass and they have 2 flash holes), so you will break your decapping pins. So, just stay away from military brass.
If you come upon a good deal on a case or 2 of military surplus ammo for sure use it but sell the brass and save a head ache

 

[engineer40]

Yes it is normal for reloading manuals to be that different in their data. That is why you will see most people on here will recommend having at least 2.

I have a couple manuals myself. I juxtapose the manuals, along with the website that g0rd0 mentioned along with the Lee loading info that comes with their dies. (I default to buying Lee dies when available).

I have seen loading data not even overlap sometimes. Completely different.

Another trick is to look online and see where guys are finding their accuracy nodes for certain bullet weight/powder combos. Sometimes it doesn't help. Sometimes you'll see that the majority of people are finding accuracy nodes very close to each other. As long as that accuracy node window falls within the safe loads in your manuals, I usually start there with testing. It saves a lot of time and ammo.

Most often I also weigh every powder charge for my rifles. However, 223 is a small case. And usually most powder throwers are the most accurate with smaller capacity. Meaning, a powder thrower will do more accurate work with a 223 compared to a 30-06. Especially if you are using a powder that meters decent. I have shot tiny groups with a 223 just throwing the charges and not measuring every one. I'm talking 10 shots in one hole measuring 1/4 inch. That's using H322. And I don't consider myself a great shot or anything.

Hope that helps.

 

[FearNoWind]

Jamie, when you're comparing manuals always compare the technical data for the loaded bullet. Case length, overall length, etc. can sometimes make a difference in the load's performance. If all the specs. are identical and the load recommendations differ you can attribute that to the way each publisher analyzed its lab data and the fact that no publisher is going to expose itself to the liability associated with recommending unsafe loads.
Regardless of the type of bullet and powder you choose, you would do well to follow a procedure recommended by Berger Bullets.
Getting the Best Precision and Accuracy from VLD Bullets in Your Rifle | Berger Bullets Blog
I usually find the powder charge weight that gives me the best group with the bullet seatied .015 - .020 off the lands and then use the Berger test to fine tune the seating.

 

[RT2506]

If you really want to be confused take a look in the Sierra manual. They list loads for bolt actions and ARs in 223. For 55 gr bullets and 748 the Bolt action data list 26 grs as max but the data for the AR list 26.5 grs as max. Hodgdon 2011 manual list 26.3 grs as max with 55s. My a Speer list 28.5 grs 748 with mag primers for 55s.

 

[rcoody]

If you really want to be confused take a look in the Sierra manual. They list loads for bolt actions and ARs in 223. For 55 gr bullets and 748 the Bolt action data list 26 grs as max but the data for the AR list 26.5 grs as max. Hodgdon 2011 manual list 26.3 grs as max with 55s. My a Speer list 28.5 grs 748 with mag primers for 55s.

every barrel is different. you have to work up and know what pressure signs are to find the max load for each rifle, The reloading manuals are just a guide and they were written with liability in mind. If you don't know how to do this then stay well clear of the max in the reloading manuals.

I really don't know why so many want to load to the max. Usually your most accurate load is safely below max. The only time I load to my maximum accurate node is when I am shooting long distances. Otherwise I load to my accuracy node below max. It saves wear and tear on your brass and your barrel.

 

[HARPERC]

Hodgdon Reloading | Home[/U] there you can choose yet even more. But, you have a load that is .58" and under max load with no signs of high preasure stick with that for now.........

Says most of it, with good advice in the rest of the post as well.

 

[Jamie557]

Thanks for all the advice and input. I have just started reloading this year and may have some dumb questions in the near future!

 

[bigedp51]

I'm loading for two AR15 rifles and a Savage .223 bolt action, and the throat is longer in my .223 than my AR15 rifles. Meaning the .223 bolt action can be loaded warmer than the vast majority of the manuals with loads with shorter throats.

Below is the best way to judge your pressures "BUT" this method varies with the hardness of the brass in the base of the case. Example military brass is harder in the base than any brand of commercial brass. Meaning military cases will take more pressure than the "softer" cases before showing expansion above the extractor groove.

Simple Trick for Monitoring Pressure of Your Rifle Reloads | Hodgdon Reloading


At the link below you can see the various throats/freebore for the .223/5.56, and this is just one of the reasons the loading data varies so much in manuals

HOLLIGER ON .223/5.56 CHAMBERS
NJ HiPower - Cartridge Tech Specs


I buy a lot of once fired Lake City 5.56 Brass for its strength, as you can see below.

How Hard is Your Brass? 5.56 and .223 Rem Base Hardness Tests
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com...r-brass-5-56-and-223-rem-base-hardness-tests/

 

[just country]

morning, in my ar's I shoot 24.5grs of TAC, Winchester brass, 205M primers. Nosler

new technologies 55gr black bullets.

the ar's cycle good, accuracy is .200 to .300. I full length all of my AR's brass.

1 ar is a DPMS upper-rock river lower. the barrel is straight contour SS 1.380 at

the end. 26"

Second is a rock river national match. same load. same accuracy. 24" SS #3 contour.

both rifles r extremely accurate.

I have a Rem. 700 SPS in 223 heavy barrel. totally stock. I adjusted trigger.

started at 27gr. of TAC. accuracy is .500 I was reading and found another load.

25.5gr. of TAC, H-335-W-748 all work. make a note of powders in the same burn

range. the bullet used is a barnes 53gr TTSX FB. my experience is this is a excellent

bullet for accuracy and killing. I have shot hogs, deer, coyotes with this bullet.

bangflop. shots out to 300yrds. u will love this bullet.lightbulb

 

[Wado]

60 Grain Vmax
24.0 Gr TAC
Remington Brass/Rem BR Primer 1/2" five shot group at 100 yards in My CZ 527 .223 Normal pressure signs

55 Grain V Max
25.0 Gr TAC
Same brass, primer and rifle with a flyer 3/4" three shot group at 100 yards
Primers still showed a radius but were starting to flatten

55 Grain V Max 24.0 Gr Varget( 1/2" five shot group very low pressure )
( 24.5 and the group opened up )
I went up to 26.0 grains with Hornady 55 gr Spire points that shot a 1 1/2" five shot group. Flattened the primers pretty good.
Same brass, same primer and rifle


64 Grain Win Power Points
24.5 Gr Win 748
Same brass and rifle but terrible groups 2" and greater
A little pressure signs, flat primer etc.

I just started loading .223 also so it's a work in progress. I always shot AR's and never looked for my brass so I just shot boxed ammo. So far Tac has got my attention but I have a big selection of powder in my collection so this might take a while.

 

[Kansaswoodguy]

I never did find a great accuracy load with W748. For the 55vmax's I like IMR 3031 and have good luck with IMR 8208 XBR also. The 8208 with 75's is very good your MVP has a 1-9 twist you should be able to shoot the 75's in your rifle. I have not had great luck with the ball powders in 223 rem giving great accuracy, I have much better luck with stick powders for accuracy. Sorting your brass by head stamp and trimming all your brass to the same length is must do for accuracy.