New Sendero troubles

[WV Sendero]

Has anything been done to rifle to help accurize it. There could be several things working against you. The crown could be cut out out of alignment from the bore. Not to uncommon to see from the factory. There could also be scratch of ding in the crown effecting accuracy. If the action is not stress free bedded and the barrel 100% free floated it should be for best accuracy potential. Are the bolt lugs lapped? Are the scope bases stress free and loc-tited in place. Are the scope rings lapped and the scope sitting stress free with the reticle aligned? It sounds like you have a good grasp on reloading so to me it sounds like the rifle just needs a good tweaking to make it work a little better towards its potential. As far as the brass shaving in the bot face I see this alot with factory Remington extractors. There are a couple of things that cause this. The factory extractor groove may not be cut deep enough for the extractor to properly expand in far enough to snap over the rim of the case. If it bottom out the brass is softer than the extractor and it will just tear a groove in the rim. The factory extractor is a pretty stiff, add along a sharp edge and brass shavings is what you get. Your probably noticing when you push the bolt forward you have to give it a little extra uugghh to snap the extractor over the rim of the case. It's not a accuracy deal breaker other than it's a pain in the ***. A sako extractor has a more positive extraction and you won't have to grunt to snap the sako extractor over the rim, you probably won't even feel it snap over. I'd be glad to talk with you about accurizing your rifle and a sako extractor, if your interested feel free to give me a call, my numbers on my website.

I think my problem is exactly what you said because you descibed what it is doing. I'm going to do a bit more shooting with it and see if I can get what I want but I anticipate I will be calling you. I had already been looking at your services on you website. Thanks alot Kevin, and everyone else who gave responses I really appreciate the guidance.

 

[WV Sendero]

Perhaps someone else can address the brass shavings on the bolt face...

Don't worry about the shavings, they are just a minor problem with the extractor clip.
I would be more worried about the accuracy of that rifle. I had a Remington 7mmRM last year and it had a faulty chamber.
The chamber was that badly cut that I could not extract factory loads after firing. The problem was with a deep bur in the chamber.

The smith that rebarreled it for me said that Remington had a bad batch of 7mmRM chambers cut.

Well thats encouraging for a new rifle .

 

[liltank]

I had a problem brass getting marked. I had the chamber polished to make sure all the nastys were out. That fixed it.

Tank

 

[Airgunner7]

150+ rounds 2 powders/2 Bullets/2 Cases.......My Sendero is good for 1/2-1.0 Moa .75 being the average. Beded, jewel trigger still no improvement. .002 Runout on fired cases tells me it is not entirely true. You would think millions of dollars of machines and they could at least produce a true action/barrel alignment...this will be my first and last Remington. Everything has to be replaced to make it good- I thought paying extra for a sendero would get me something.....a nice stock is all I have been impressed with. It has a good look to it and did come in 7 Rum so that part I like.

I must be spoiled with my first rifle being a Sako.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

150+ rounds 2 powders/2 Bullets/2 Cases.......My Sendero is good for 1/2-1.0 Moa .75 being the average. Beded, jewel trigger still no improvement. .002 Runout on fired cases tells me it is not entirely true. You would think millions of dollars of machines and they could at least produce a true action/barrel alignment...this will be my first and last Remington. Everything has to be replaced to make it good- I thought paying extra for a sendero would get me something.....a nice stock is all I have been impressed with. It has a good look to it and did come in 7 Rum so that part I like.

I must be spoiled with my first rifle being a Sako.

Interesting... my "guaranteed" Sako Finnlight (300 WSM) is about a 2-3 MOA shooter that has caused me a lot of grief including two trips to the factory in which they said there was nothing wrong with it.... But that's another story

My two Senderos, both previously owned, 300 RUM and 25-06 are both .5 MOA shooters out to 400 yds and I have had a coupld of .25 MOA groups with them without any accurizing work done to them... and they will both shoot just about any load very well.

Sorry to hear about your trouble WV Sendero. Unfortunately, it happens now and then, especially with the big gun makers. If you have the funds, I would highly recommend getting your action blue printed and stock skim bedded. That's something you'll want to do in the future anyway and something I was planning on doing with my Senderos.

That being said, I am planning on selling my Senderos and buying Sub MOA Vanguards because I like the actions (Howa) a little better than the Rem actions. In fact, I just got a good deal on a new one and just ordered a Broughton 5C barrel for it and will be getting a blue print and skim bed job for it.

Best wishes on your project.

-Mark

 

[Topshot]

Interesting... my "guaranteed" Sako Finnlight (300 WSM) is about a 2-3 MOA shooter that has caused me a lot of grief including two trips to the factory in which they said there was nothing wrong with it.... But that's another story

My two Senderos, both previously owned, 300 RUM and 25-06 are both .5 MOA shooters out to 400 yds and I have had a coupld of .25 MOA groups with them without any accurizing work done to them... and they will both shoot just about any load very well.

Sorry to hear about your trouble WV Sendero. Unfortunately, it happens now and then, especially with the big gun makers. If you have the funds, I would highly recommend getting your action blue printed and stock skim bedded. That's something you'll want to do in the future anyway and something I was planning on doing with my Senderos.

That being said, I am planning on selling my Senderos and buying Sub MOA Vanguards because I like the actions (Howa) a little better than the Rem actions. In fact, I just got a good deal on a new one and just ordered a Broughton 5C barrel for it and will be getting a blue print and skim bed job for it.

Best wishes on your project.

-Mark

Mark,
Why would you get rid of a 0.5 MOA Sendero based on a solid Remington action. Then replace it with a "CAST" Howa action that have been known to fail in a catastrophic manner.
Not many gunsmiths will touch a Howa action as they are not considered safe in larger calibres..

 

[A_Baker]

My new Sendero in 300 RUM was FUBARed from the factory,chamber was cut .025 out of round and the barrel was warped. You should probably take it to a gun smith and have it checked out.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Mark,
Why would you get rid of a 0.5 MOA Sendero based on a solid Remington action. Then replace it with a "CAST" Howa action that have been known to fail in a catastrophic manner.
Not many gunsmiths will touch a Howa action as they are not considered safe in larger calibres..

Wow Topshot! You caused me a lot of research! Anyway... I know it sounds crazy to sell a .5 MOA rifle, but my 25-06 is about shot out, so it needs replaced or rebuilt anyway. It's badly firecracked by the previous owner but it still shot well for me for a while and I did get a nice speed goat buck with a pin point accurate 280 yd shot. The last couple of groups I shot from it opened up a little. I will probably keep it around until I get a replacement and maybe snuff a few prairie dogs in with it the mean time.

The 300 Ultra has a couple hundred rounds or so through it and I'll probably put another couple hundred through it before I sell it. It will be my spring bear rifle and I'll hold on to it until I have a replacement which I'm planning on being a 300-375 Ruger. So wasn't planning on building a RUM on a Howa action because it it's a bit too small. In fact, IMO the Rem action is also too small for the RUM for the bullets I am planning on using - which are .010 longer than the 210 Bergers.

That being said, I have two Rems and one Howa (S&W M1500) and I like the Howa much better, not to say the Rem isn't a good action - it is. How's that for politics Seriously though, the Rem is a good action, but I think the Howa is better and I'm not the only one with that opinion. Some folks will tell you that Rem 700's are junk. I think some have had their issues but overall it has been a good work horse.

This is the first I've heard of Howa's being cast. I don't doubt you, I just never heard it before and after some googling, I only found one second hand reference to it. Never-the-less, Weatherby offers the Vanguards in 300 WM, 338 WM and 300 Wby Mag. The latter has about 5 gr more case capacity than the 375 Ruger and I found a couple of references to 375 Rugers built on Howa actions. So I think I'm safe with that. I also found this well know smith whio likes using Howa's for Lapua builds....

Roedale Precision - Semi-Custom

Some smiths wont build a Lapua on a Rem 700, but everyone has different standards.

As for catastrophic failure, again, first I've heard of it and if you could provide details and reference I would be no kidding interested.

Why I like the Howa over the Rem 700...

- One piece gas ported bolt
- Better bolt fit and smoother action (with my rifles)
- Better designed bolt release
- M16 style extractor
- Side by side comparison, heavier more robust reciever
- Integrated recoil lug
- Much more simple and easier trigger tuning (in my experience)
-- I spent over an hour tuning each of my 700 triggers
-- 2 min to tune my Howa

So that's my story and I'm sticking to it... and if I leave this world breaking the trigger of my Howa... well... there are worse ways to go... and I'll bequeath my NXS to you which I have no doubt will escape with only minor scratches

 

[Topshot]

Mark,

They are definately a cast action.

No web based reports on the failures that I can refer you to. Just investigation reports from gunsmiths down here that have been conducted at the request of the NRAA when a rifle blows up. Its a well known problem down here.

The local gunsmiths will not touch a howa action other than a straight forward rebarrel job to a standard calibre. If it fails then they might be blamed.

Seems that failures could have something to do with gunsmiths opening up the action to fit a larger barrel tennon. The front of the action blows out on one side and the barrel heads West!

Standard calibres would be Ok but I would not be taking too much metal away from the front of that action.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Mark,

They are definately a cast action.

No web based reports on the failures that I can refer you to. Just investigation reports from gunsmiths down here that have been conducted at the request of the NRAA when a rifle blows up. Its a well known problem down here.

The local gunsmiths will not touch a howa action other than a straight forward rebarrel job to a standard calibre. If it fails then they might be blamed.

Seems that failures could have something to do with gunsmiths opening up the action to fit a larger barrel tennon. The front of the action blows out on one side and the barrel heads West!

Standard calibres would be Ok but I would not be taking too much metal away from the front of that action.

No worries mate, and thanks for the tip I'll be sure to broach the subject with my smith. As of yet, he still thinks we're doing a 300 WSM build since I only had this 375 Ruger epiphany this moring... and I know he does like Howa actions, but not real crazy about B&C stocks.

Cheers

 

[gunwalker]

Mark,

They are definately a cast action.

From Weatherby's website:

"Introduced in 1970, the Weatherby Vanguard® action (based on a Mauser-style, dual opposed lug design) takes many of its cues from our legendary Mark V® action, including a one-piece machined receiver, fully enclosed bolt sleeve and three rings of steel surrounding the casehead."

Maybe they should be told that their recievers are cast and not machined?

 

[MontanaRifleman]

From Chuck Hawks...

All Vanguards are based on an action using a one-piece forged and machined, flat bottomed receiver and a machined steel bolt with dual opposed locking lugs. This modified Mauser action is built to Weatherby specifications by Howa in Tokyo, Japan.
The Howa bolt action is a good one, and the version produced for the Vanguard incorporates many of the features of the Mark V. The cartridge head is contained within Weatherby's famous three rings of steel. The one-piece bolt body is fluted, there are three gas escape ports in the side of the bolt and a streamlined bolt sleeve shrouds the rear of the bolt. Also similar to the Mark V is the flush mounted claw extractor at the front of the bolt and the plunger ejector in the recessed bolt face.
The two position Vanguard safety locks the bolt closed in the "safe" position, just like a Mark V safety, but it is not as quiet in operation and is shaped differently. There is also a Mark V type cocking indicator for added safety. ...\

Weatherby Vanguard Rifles

Sorry for the hijack WV Sendero, but maybe you have learned something...

Topshot, I know that Ruger M77's are cast actions... could these be what you are refering to?

 

[Topshot]

From Weatherby's website:

"Introduced in 1970, the Weatherby Vanguard® action (based on a Mauser-style, dual opposed lug design) takes many of its cues from our legendary Mark V® action, including a one-piece machined receiver, fully enclosed bolt sleeve and three rings of steel surrounding the casehead."

Maybe they should be told that their recievers are cast and not machined?

I can find hundreds of reference to Howa actions being investment cast.
This is a typical reason why gunsmiths down here do not work on Howa actions!
Not investment case hey? Here is one that was!

Wolfe Publishing Company

338 Lapua on Howa 1500 LA
Howa 1500/Vanguard SA vs. an L579 - 24hourcampfire

 

[rscott5028]

Topshot,

I don't have a dog in this hunt. And, I don't really care who wins this debate.

But, the sources you're providing aren't easily verifiable. It's just more guys with more opinions.

The photo you provided of a catastrophic failure is just a photo.

You've got my curiosity now. So, I'll look around some on my own.

But, it would be helpful if you can provide credible/verifiable sources.

Thanks,
Richard