New Build: 6.5-300 Weatherby

[pacowboy]

Ive had great success with Hart and Douglas barrels in several different calibers. My 6.5-300 Wby still wears a Douglas from when it was built back in the late 1960's or early 1970's by my great uncle who used it to shoot 1k comps at Williamsport. Back then he didn't have the bullets we have today so it only had a 1-10 twist so heavier bullets are out for me. He passed and I don't have his load data so I'm starting new and doubt I'll be able to get past 130gr bullets. When this barrel gives up the ghost I'll be switching to a Hart with probably a 1-7.5 or 8 twist. Whichever Bobby Hart recommends for me to shoot 140's and higher. I know you are sticking with this and don't think you will be disappointed with what you have and will choose for this build. But I do own 7-300 and it has a 28" Douglas that was put on it in the early 80's that's still going strong. So my recommendation is Hart first Douglas second. Good luck with your build and have fun with it.

 

[Calvin45]

not the powder I envisioned!
Using mono's with the varget?

Yeah maybe with an light hammer or other drive band bullet or hbn treated varmint bullet. But saying "varget is your friend with most any 6.5 bullet" when referring to the 6.5-300 weatherby sounds like a great way to blow something up haha. Good grief.

I know when I was doing load work up for the 75 grain hammer in my .257 bee I tried h380 at butter beans suggestion. I see where it is on a burn chart. To say I was "tense" when I pulled the trigger was an understatement. But it worked great. But again, a 75 grain drive band bullet, not the average bullet. And h 4350 and rl17 proved better performing still, h380 was perfectly useable but still faster than optimal.

For "normal" bullets in the 257 weatherby from 100 grains and up I have a good supply of imr7828ssc and RL25. 7828 is "the original magnum powder" and still one of the best. Very underrated these days with so many newer fancier powders….but I still always think of it as "old reliable" and always want to have some around.

The 6.5x300 is even more overbore than my .257 and twisted to shoot heavier for caliber bullets too.

 

[Chris F]

His claim is about 2 different weight bullets not the same weight, bigger piston burns more fuel

Yes, but the principle applies. For a given case capacity, and a given pressure, the bigger bore achieves higher velocities with the same weight bullet. Grab a reloading manual and compare the 260, 7-08 and 308 at 50kpsi with 150's. You'll see a definite trend.
You can use the principle to extrapolate yobuck's heavier bullet.

 

[KRL1116]

Well as for the brass, standard 300 Wetherby brass is a one step process to run thru a standard 7x 300 Wetherby die.
So even your old fired brass could be reused.
You would need a step down die for the 6.5 however.
As for velocity, a 7x300 with a 162 gr bullet will equal or exceed the velocity of a 140 gr in the 6.5x300,
And thats a fact not an opinion.
Another fact is that if you had been around 50 years ago as i was, you would also have known that the 6.5x300 Wetherby users of which there were many at that time, (all) switched over to 7 mm when it was time for a new barrel.
And the reason was, better all round performance.
As for what (you ) do, that of coarse is entirely your choice.
Just be aware that you arent making the best one for that which you are contemplating doing.

He never asked for your opinion on caliber choice!

 

[Lee7588]

Yes, but the principle applies. For a given case capacity, and a given pressure, the bigger bore achieves higher pressures with the same weight bullet. Grab a reloading manual and compare the 260, 7-08 and 308 at 50kpsi with 150's. You'll see a definite trend.
You can use the principle to extrapolate yobuck's heavier bullet.

None of my books show pressure. Here are a few screen shots from nosler comparing 150 gr bullets and if comparing same powder imr 4895 with roughly the same powder charge 40 - 40.5 the speed goes to 7mm-08 not the larger bore. 7mm-08 with a charge of 40 gr is achieving 2750, 308 with 40.5 gr is achieving 2544. Bigger piston or bullet isn't showing higher speeds. I think if I'm understanding your stance correctly the 308 should be out performing the 7mm-08.

 

[usmc1383]

I just bought a lathe to make my on barrels I looking at twisting the steel before drilling out the bore I shoot 6.5x300 love it . Getting 2400 rounds before replacing it. Shooting 138 grain. I want see what a 32 inch barrel will do. When I start the build in January I post some pictures.

 

[Chris F]

Lee7588,
I have apologize…I made a typo that changed the meaning of my last post entirely (the joys of posting using a phone)

It should read;

Yes, but the principle applies. For a given case capacity, and a given pressure, the bigger bore achieves higher velocity…

I'll see if I can still go in and edit.

The Hodgdon online manual lists pressures at the min and max charges.

 

[264WM]

You should be able to put a 85gr bullet well over 4000fps as I have reached 3825fps with my 264WM and could push it faster as there is no signs of pressure with the 85gr HP using H4831 powder.

 

[Lee7588]

Lee7588,
I have apologize…I made a typo that changed the meaning of my last post entirely (the joys of posting using a phone)

It should read;

I'll see if I can still go in and edit.

The Hodgdon online manual lists pressures at the min and max charges.

No problem I thought I responded to this whole driving, still trying to figure out where I sent the response.

I looked at hodgdon's site trying to find where they are giving the pressures while using the same bullet on the 260, 7mm-08, and 308 it seems that they don't use the same bullets on any that I saw. Using different bullets while have a different surface bearing area which may show different pressure measurements. It is tough to get all of the variables the same to give honest results. Whether purposely changed the bullets to get results that are desired or bullets just changed for no reason. We are trying to compare different cartridges with same weight, brand, and model of bullets, and equal pressure to see the results. And we can't do that when the brand and model of bullets are different. If I missed where they have an apples to apples comparison let me know I missed that comparison

 

[LongestShot]

Well as for the brass, standard 300 Wetherby brass is a one step process to run thru a standard 7x 300 Wetherby die.
So even your old fired brass could be reused.
You would need a step down die for the 6.5 however.
As for velocity, a 7x300 with a 162 gr bullet will equal or exceed the velocity of a 140 gr in the 6.5x300,
And thats a fact not an opinion.
Another fact is that if you had been around 50 years ago as i was, you would also have known that the 6.5x300 Wetherby users of which there were many at that time, (all) switched over to 7 mm when it was time for a new barrel.
And the reason was, better all round performance.
As for what (you ) do, that of coarse is entirely your choice.
Just be aware that you arent making the best one for that which you are contemplating doing.

Well as for the brass, standard 300 Wetherby brass is a one step process to run thru a standard 7x 300 Wetherby die.
So even your old fired brass could be reused.
You would need a step down die for the 6.5 however.
As for velocity, a 7x300 with a 162 gr bullet will equal or exceed the velocity of a 140 gr in the 6.5x300,
And thats a fact not an opinion.
Another fact is that if you had been around 50 years ago as i was, you would also have known that the 6.5x300 Wetherby users of which there were many at that time, (all) switched over to 7 mm when it was time for a new barrel.
And the reason was, better all round performance.
As for what (you ) do, that of coarse is entirely your choice.
Just be aware that you arent making the best one for that which you are contemplating doing.

I'm going to attempt to explain my position and, as best I can, explain why your position on this matter fails for a plethora of reasons. First, you're making way too many assumptions. In your world, the one any only fact that matters is achieving maximum velocity which you quantify as performance. If everyone adhered to your analysis, there'd be only 3-4 different cartridges in the world. The 3-4 to four different categories of cartridges would be filled with what would be considered the best performing cartridge. The 30-30 Winchester would never have become the most widely used deer rifle in America because of its less than stellar ballistics. Baskin Robbins Ice Cream serves a 101 different ice creams. The reason is simple, people's choice of ice cream is based upon 1001 different preferences. The same applies to rifles. Peoples choice of a rifle cartridge involves a number of factors, not just velocity or performance. Like the endearing 30-30 Winchester, many people chose it because they liked a level action or, they chose it because that's what their father and grandfather shot. Today, thousands are opting for the 6.5 Creedmoor because it's the latest fad, not because its the best performing cartridge available.
I chose the 6.5-300 for several reasons. At present, I've got 9-10 different bullets in 6.5 in varying weights sitting on the shelf ready to be tested in a 6.5-300. I don't have any 7mm bullets as I don't own a 7mm rifle. I have no desire to start another collection of bullets. Also research indicates that the 300 Weatherby (which you suggested I stay with) has approximately 34 pounds of felt recoil; the 6.5-300 is listed at 20 pounds of recoil. I crushed my spine, twice; three fused discs, a titanium plate and a dozen screws in my spine are the result. I don't do well with heavy recoil. That's why I'm opting for a muzzle brake as well. Also, I was around 19 at the time, fifty years ago as you assumed I wasn't around. It's when I purchased the 300 Weatherby. Additionally, your statement,

you would also have known that the 6.5x300 Wetherby users of which there were many at that time, (all) switched over to 7 mm when it was time for a new barrel.

The statement is misleading at best. To claim that 100% (all) of the 6.5-300 owners switched over to 7mm is a complete fabrication. Many may have, to claim 100% changed over to 7mm is baseless, it simply assuages your mindset. There are no facts, records or writings to support your assertion. It reminds me of the nonsensical statement made by Trump last week claiming he won (all) fifty states in the 2020 election. To suggest that a majority of left wing radical California and New York State citizens would vote GOP, let alone for Trump in today's political climate, you've got to be a megalomaniac.
The 7mm-300 is a great cartridge, so is the 6.5-300. I was surprised by the number of LRH members that also shoot the 6.5-300 and embrace it. The fact that the 7mm-300 might edge out the 6.5-300 by a few feet in velocity is meaningless to me. Other factors including just personal preference outweigh this fact. It's the Baskin-Robbins preference I've made.

 

[Chris F]

I looked at hodgdon's site trying to find where they are giving the pressures while using the same bullet on the 260, 7mm-08, and 308 it seems that they don't use the same bullets on any that I saw. Using different bullets while have a different surface bearing area which may show different pressure measurements. It is tough to get all of the variables the same to give honest results. Whether purposely changed the bullets to get results that are desired or bullets just changed for no reason. We are trying to compare different cartridges with same weight, brand, and model of bullets, and equal pressure to see the results. And we can't do that when the brand and model of bullets are different. If I missed where they have an apples to apples comparison let me know I missed that comparison

Hey!...fun discussion. You're right, the statement lacks scientific rigor, but in an observational sense, poring through different manuals, you'll see a definite trend.

I had half a thought to put the statement to the test (I am set up to do strain pressure measurements), but the confounders (bullet construction, barrel maker and rifling pattern, etc) are probably more than what I'd like to or can control for. Let's do LongestShot a favor and move this discussion to PM's.

What Affects Rifle Chamber Pressure and Critical Factors You Need to Know - RifleShooter

When a cartridge is fired, a progressive burn of the propellant converts it to rapidly expanding gas that exerts an equal amount of pressure in all directions. Maximum recommended pressure for a rifle cartridge is usually dictated by the action strength of the rifle for which it is developed.

www.rifleshootermag.com

 

[justincase]

For what its worth; I have had good personal experience with Hart barrels and of the very few complaints that ive heard about hart, none have been validated..

If barrel length will be over 26" yes varget will be a prime candidate for powder choice.

Dont remember who said it but there is some truth to being able to push a heavier bullet faster in a select few situations. High capacity cases, with small caliber bullets will sometimes show pressure signs at certain velocity, where a slightly larger diameter/weight bullet can be pushed a little faster at a lower pressure. Just simple physics - you can vent the pressure out of a bigger hole faster than you can a smaller hole. Fast barrell twist rates contribute to higher pressures too. Fact: a 30 cal, 125 grn bullet can be pushed over 4k without any sign of pressure with a 1:15 twist 30" barrel. This would never happen in a 1:10 or even a 1:12.

 

[comfisherman]

Varget for a 6.5-300? That doesn't seem right, I'd think something slower than retumbo, maybe 869 or something with the burn rate of wet sawdust....

 

[yobuck]

I'm going to attempt to explain my position and, as best I can, explain why your position on this matter fails for a plethora of reasons. First, you're making way too many assumptions. In your world, the one any only fact that matters is achieving maximum velocity which you quantify as performance. If everyone adhered to your analysis, there'd be only 3-4 different cartridges in the world. The 3-4 to four different categories of cartridges would be filled with what would be considered the best performing cartridge. The 30-30 Winchester would never have become the most widely used deer rifle in America because of its less than stellar ballistics. Baskin Robbins Ice Cream serves a 101 different ice creams. The reason is simple, people's choice of ice cream is based upon 1001 different preferences. The same applies to rifles. Peoples choice of a rifle cartridge involves a number of factors, not just velocity or performance. Like the endearing 30-30 Winchester, many people chose it because they liked a level action or, they chose it because that's what their father and grandfather shot. Today, thousands are opting for the 6.5 Creedmoor because it's the latest fad, not because its the best performing cartridge available.
I chose the 6.5-300 for several reasons. At present, I've got 9-10 different bullets in 6.5 in varying weights sitting on the shelf ready to be tested in a 6.5-300. I don't have any 7mm bullets as I don't own a 7mm rifle. I have no desire to start another collection of bullets. Also research indicates that the 300 Weatherby (which you suggested I stay with) has approximately 34 pounds of felt recoil; the 6.5-300 is listed at 20 pounds of recoil. I crushed my spine, twice; three fused discs, a titanium plate and a dozen screws in my spine are the result. I don't do well with heavy recoil. That's why I'm opting for a muzzle brake as well. Also, I was around 19 at the time, fifty years ago as you assumed I wasn't around. It's when I purchased the 300 Weatherby. Additionally, your statement,

The statement is misleading at best. To claim that 100% (all) of the 6.5-300 owners switched over to 7mm is a complete fabrication. Many may have, to claim 100% changed over to 7mm is baseless, it simply assuages your mindset. There are no facts, records or writings to support your assertion. It reminds me of the nonsensical statement made by Trump last week claiming he won (all) fifty states in the 2020 election. To suggest that a majority of left wing radical California and New York State citizens would vote GOP, let alone for Trump in today's political climate, you've got to be a megalomaniac.
The 7mm-300 is a great cartridge, so is the 6.5-300. I was surprised by the number of LRH members that also shoot the 6.5-300 and embrace it. The fact that the 7mm-300 might edge out the 6.5-300 by a few feet in velocity is meaningless to me. Other factors including just personal preference outweigh this fact. It's the Baskin-Robbins preference I've made.

If you reread your initial post, it sounds nothing like your most recent.
Had you said you were a 6.5 collector, and wanted to add a 6.5x300 for long range hunting, i doubt i would have even replied.
As for my statement of all of the 6.5 users switching to 7mm you are correct, im sure not all did.
As for the 30/30, it was my first rifle in 1947, and yes many hunters at that time used those.
Or a 300 Savage, or a 35 Rem. which was my second rifle.
But back then we werent hunting at long ranges either.

Certainly Roy Wetherby was aware of the popularity of that cartridge among long range hunters in some places back in the 60s.
The first rifle chambered for that cartridge took place in the early 50s, by a man by name of Wright, who was a 1000 yd target shooter, and who also had a connection with Roy Wetherby.
And it was the introduction of the 6.5 139 gr Norma match bullet that caused his intrest in doing that.
Why didnt Roy Wetherby choose to add that cartridge to his line of cartridges back then?
Fact is that it wasent untill the rather recent 6.5 cartridge popularity growth that Wetherby decided to do that.
To attempt to compare ones opinion, with actual performance is a bit absurd.
Non the less we are all entitled to have opinions, and i wish you all the best with yours.