Need help with rifle accuracy

[jaybo]

Starting a new thread with this but it was brought up in another but now I realize I have bigger problems. My son has a Browning X-bolt 7mag that two years ago was getting about 3/4 inch groups with Winchester 160 gr ammo with me doing the shooting. He was going to use it on an elk hunt but was having trouble getting tight groups due to the recoil so he used my 308. I was having trouble with the plastic tips falling off the bullets so I wanted to find another type of ammo so I purchased a box of the new Hornady ELD-X ammo. Took it to my camp and got it on paper with some older bullets and it was all over the place with about a 6 inch random spread. Since it was shooting great before I sent the scope in only to get it back with a report that it was working properly. Another trip to the range and got two shots that were less than an inch apart horizontally then the 3rd and 4th shot did the same thing only 21/2inches lower. The 5th shot jumped back up just above the first two. I stopped there and got new Talley light weight mounts. Next time out with Federal 150gr BT I put 3 bullets touching. Swapped to the Hornady, 2bullets touching then 3rd, 4th, & 5th spread out in a 5 inch circle. Took another 5 group shot with the Federal 150s again and another 5 inch spread. Swapped scopes with the same results. Twice at 100 yards then one last time at 50 yards with 2 bullets touching and the 3rd about 2 inches higher. Took the rifle home and took it apart and the only thing I can see is the stock is the Dura coat and it is ruined as far as I am concerned because it is breaking down and is sticky. The rubber is actually scraping off of the thing possibly loosening the stock from the barrel. I had it good and tight but when I took it off it felt like it came off easier than it should have. I plan on eventually putting a McMillan stock on it and hope that solves the problem. If it doesn't, I don't know what to do other than turn it over to a competent gun smith. Let me add that 90% of the shots were taken between 12 and 20 minutes apart to allow for barrel cooling except for the last few due to frustration. Also, I was not suffering from recoil shyness because between these shots I was shooting a 300wm with sub moa results.

So rifle shot fine before, cool barrel, two scopes, 3 kinds of ammo, 2 different scope mounts, 2 and 3 shot groups touching then fliers every which way. What the HELL???

 

[Barrelnut]

IHMO, sounds like the action is moving in the stock. Current stock seems kinda trashed anyway, I would put the McMillan on and see.

 

[Laelkhunter]

When was the last time the bore was cleaned? It might need a good cleaning with a carbon remover first, then a good copper solvent. You fired 25 shots since you got the scope back and remounted it. How much had it been fired before then without a thorough cleaning?
As Barrelnut states, sounds like the stock is toast also. It can't give the action much support if it is dissolving and sticking to the action when you take it apart.

 

[jaybo]

I probably clean my rifles more than I need to. Usually no more than 30 rounds between cleaning and probably closer to 20 rounds depending on how long it will be before I use it again.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

It sounds like something is loose to me. I learned the hard way that torqueing the mounts to the proper inch lbs is essential. Get a torque driver (if you are not already) and work over all the mounting points of the rifle and scope.

I may have missed it in your original post. Are you using the same ammo now that the rifle used to shoot well with?

IMO factory ammo is a crap shoot. When my daughter was first starting to hunt I got her a 7-08 Vanguard youth rifle. Time was a crunch to head out for antelope, so I got her some factory Remington ammo. Figured it would be fine as I would limit her to couple hundred yards. Took the rifle to get it sighted in and it would not shoot better than 6" at 100y. Not close to the 3/4" target that came with the rifle. I could not stand this so I went straight home and pulled the remaining ammo and loaded 1g under max in the manual with 140g Accubonds. Ran back to the range and shot a twin to the target that came with the rifle. I always figured that I got lucky. Never changed her load until last year when I loaded her up with our Hammer Bullets. With a little load development got the rifle a bit better.

My point is that her rifle is a cheap o rifle with a poor stock. It shot similar to what you are seeing and we fixed it with handloads.

By the way that was the last time I ever purchased factory ammo.

Steve

 

[Rich Coyle]

Jaybo,

Did you ever try a different scope? It sounds like you installed the same one after the factory told you it was fine.

 

[jaybo]

Yes, two of the rounds that were used were proven prior to all of the problems. After getting the scope back I torqued all of the scope mounts and rings plus the two mounting screws on the rifle to the stock. It is when I got home the last time that I took the rifle completely apart and when I did it felt like those two screws came loose with less effort than they should have.

Unfortunately I don't reload but probably have spent enough on different ammo over the years to buy all of the necessary equipment and then some. I just hate to get started and go through the learning curve plus setting everything up in the house.

Also tried another proven scope and torqued it down too.

 

[Anschutz]

Jaybo, getting started reloading has a learning curve but if you have basic carpentry skills you can build a solid bench and be set to go. At least the rifle isn't so bad you were forced to go into the bullet business to get it to shoot like Steve.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

Jaybo, getting started reloading has a learning curve but if you have basic carpentry skills you can build a solid bench and be set to go. At least the rifle isn't so bad you were forced to go into the bullet business to get it to shoot like Steve.

I think this was funny. We had pretty good rifles before the bullets. We did fight with getting bullets to work like we wanted.

The bullet business just kinda happened. We originally formed our company with the intent to build custom rifles and do custom ammunition. The bullet thing came along and we headed that way figuring it would be an easier way to get into the firearms industry. We still intend to get into the custom rifle business in the future. The custom ammunition we are now doing. So we are getting there.

Steve

 

[Anschutz]

I think this was funny. We had pretty good rifles before the bullets. We did fight with getting bullets to work like we wanted.

The bullet business just kinda happened. We originally formed our company with the intent to build custom rifles and do custom ammunition. The bullet thing came along and we headed that way figuring it would be an easier way to get into the firearms industry. We still intend to get into the custom rifle business in the future. The custom ammunition we are now doing. So we are getting there.

Steve

I'm just pulling your leg. I may have to try some of your bullets in the 6mm variety.

 

[horse killer]

I went through the same problem. I drew a Bull Elk tag in Nevada and wanted to improve my accuracy in my browning .Factory loads shot like S*** so I started to reload for the rifle and it still shot like S***. Long story made short my neighbor who has been reloading for years and was helping me used his boor scope and informed me that the barrel was trash. Replaced barrel and went from 3 inch groups to 1/2 inch groups.

 

[jaybo]

Unless I did something during the cleaning process to really screw up the barrel it has not been shot enough to have shot out the barrel. That doesn't mean the barrel isn't damaged, I'll just have to wait and see. I believe the stock was loose as I said before, it came apart a little too easy after I had originally torqued it down to 60 inch pounds. I am hoping that a new stock with pillar bedding solves the problem. If not, I will have it bore scoped and go from there.

 

[Zen Archery]

Do you have a fellow hunter or part of a gun club that someone else could possibly shoot. Check results. When I've had a bad coffee shooting day. I will sometimes ask my shooting buddy to make sure its all me and not my equipment. 100% of the time it has always been me.

I can't imagine a gun last shot .75" groups open up that bad.

 

[jaybo]

No but this was on three separate trips to the camp and 4 different days of shooting. The first time then I removed the scope since it was shooting fine before that trip. The second time after I got it back then I went ahead and changed the mounts to Tally lite weight. The third time then I changed to a different scope. Then the following day again one last time at 50 yards this time with the same results. In between the first two times I was shooting 3 other rifles with good results in those 3. The last two times was another rifle with good results so it was just this particular rifle that was acting up. The total time span during all of this was about 10 weeks due to sending the scope in, vacation with the wife, (for some reason she doesn't consider shooting time at the camp as vacation), plus a 2 1/2 hour drive to the camp limits my time a little.