Need help with ladder

rfurman24

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Need opinions on the data all were shot at 455. This is the longest I have at the moment. I do not need to hear about how some feel ladders are not valid. This is a 300 win mag. The first is with h1000 and 215 Bergers.
 

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BountyHunter

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Did you record any chrono data with the strings?

IMO that is one of the critical elements in load development.

I have found that you will normally see big jumps on non node shots and then much smaller jumps in MV in nodes. The MV data will coincide with the on target grouping and will provide a confirmation of what you are seeing.

It is easy then to pick a node based on BOTH on target impacts and uniformity of MV.

Also, the MV data lets you know if you are hitting your target MV. You might have good groupings but 200 fps lower than you wanted.
 

rfurman24

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I stopped taking chrono data a long time ago during load development. In my experience I have never gotten an accurate load with large extreme spreads. I quit wasting my time with the chrono until I have found a load that appears to be a good one. I thought I would try a ladder to hopefully save time and money for components.
 

BountyHunter

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Read my comments again about why you chrono during a ladder. It confirms the node most of the time.

You will see large MV jumps and then suddenly 2-3 rds will have very small jumps and they normally coincide with the nodes for POI.

that is why I asked, but each unto his own.
 

rfurman24

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I absolutely read your comment the first time. I was simply stating I did not take it and why. I will also say I have had two different shooting chronys and both have given wild extreme spreads yet the loads prove out at distance. I am in no way discounting your advice I am just saying it has never worked out for me in the past. I will occasionally use it to get an idea of the drops I could anticipate to get on paper at long distance. The next ladder I do and when I try to prove these loads I will give it another shot. I appreciate your response.
 

phorwath

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I will also say I have had two different shooting chronys and both have given wild extreme spreads yet the loads prove out at distance.
That's because you were using shooting chronys. The best you can do with them is to shoot them.
 

rfurman24

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I do not doubt that but in comparisons between it and others of similar cost it almost always has better feedback.
 

bruce_ventura

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That's because you were using shooting chronys. The best you can do with them is to shoot them.
Bryan Litz tested the Shooting Chrony against an Oehler and several other chronies. The Shooting Chrony accuracy was off 0.7%, but it had reasonably good precision, and he gave it a passing grade for load development work. He seemed to like the performance of the CED M2 best in the <$400 category. The $800 PVM-21 was dog by comparison (poor precision).

I have since tested a Prochrono Digital against a CED M2. The accuracy and precision of the Prochrono Digital were both excellent. Based on Bryan's test and my own observations, I would recommend either the CED or Prochrono models.
 

phorwath

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Yes, I read Bryan's Thread. Interesting read. I've read of some pretty poor experiences with the shooting chrony under a greater variety of conditions of use. I've never owned one. My comments are based on commentary from others who've owned and used them. Some have said the best thing about their shooting chrony was the day they purposely shot it to put it down once and for all.

I shoot over a triplicate chronograph setup. An Oehler 35P, an Oehler 33, and a PACT PC2. I receive 4 MVs concurrently, for each shot fired. 2 from the Oehler 35P, and one each from the other two. I've learned quite a bit about chronographs while shooting over my multiple chronographs over the past 8 years. If you only fire over a single chronograph, you'll never have an ability to identify erratic chronograph performance, which I occasionally observe from each of the three models I shoot over. No chronograph is fool proof or error free under all conditions, all the time. When they're hitting on all eight cylinders, their comparative precision is downright impressive.

But to repeat myself, a user has absolutely no way to identify good data from bad data shooting over a single chrono that provides a single number. You believe the numbers or you don't, without any ability to perform a QA/QC evaluation on those values.
 

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