Neck bushing

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by patrick021, May 3, 2015.


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  1. patrick021

    patrick021 Well-Known Member

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    I have a 308 it shoots less than a half inch group a 100 yds.i am currently sizing the neck about 1/3 of the neck with 41.5 grs of varget .the bullets are .015 off the lands.my group at 300 yds is about 1 1/2.shot a 3 shot group 1-2635 2-2588 3-2588 .should I size the whole neck or partial size it?
     
  2. FearNoWind

    FearNoWind Well-Known Member

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    If it truly, and consistently produces groups at .5 MOA leave it alone and shoot it. You're never going to get them all in one hole. :D
    That said, if you size the necks, size them their entire length. Sizing a portion of the neck amounts to tapering and IMO it serves no meaningful purpose.
     
  3. patrick021

    patrick021 Well-Known Member

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    My es is about 50 fps should sizing the whole neck help?
     
  4. RockZ

    RockZ Well-Known Member

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    Patrick,
    I like to size at least 3/4 of the neck to get consistent bullet hold and retain concentricity.
    Try sizing a little more and see how it works out.
    Also to bring your ES down(if you don't think it's a chrono error) try changing your powder charge in small increments and see how it works out.
    I like to work towards max to get as much velocity with great accuracy .
    Shoot at longer range and see how your vertical is..that's the real test of ES.
     
  5. patrick021

    patrick021 Well-Known Member

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    Ill size more of the necks that's possible why they don't do what I think it should I'll try it at 300 this week and I'll try to post some pics thanks
     
  6. Mikecr

    Mikecr Well-Known Member

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    In contrast, consider that all but oddball bushing dies partial size necks.
    I'm also sure most reloaders today use bushing dies. Many, many here.

    There is absolutely nothing wrong in sizing 1/3 of necks. On the other hand, sizing full length of necks brings in the inconsistent tension caused by sizing of donuts. It also removes chambered centering provided in partial sizing.
    IMO, there is nothing good in FL sizing of necks.
     
  7. BountyHunter

    BountyHunter Well-Known Member

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    I have reloaded for 50 years and have never seen or heard of donuts caused soley by FL sizing. Plus that is also using Neal Jones dies that are one of two that actually size ALL of the neck. That has been confirmed with pin guages measuring the exact inside diameter of the necks for years in competition on everything from 223s to 338s. I have sorted cases by neck tension to confirm.

    Big myth, like NS is the answer to everything.

    Key is properly fitted dies for your chamber and adjusted correctly. You can size in 1 or 3 steps as long as you size neck and case. Read below and see for yourself by some of the best short and LR shooters around talking about NS being one of the outdated techniques that just won't go away.

    http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f28/how-set-up-fl-sizing-dies-one-masters-game-153072/
     
  8. Mikecr

    Mikecr Well-Known Member

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    OP limited the question to NECK SIZING, not BODY SIZING. And IMO there is nothing 'good' in FL sizing of necks -over partial.

    The context of Dave Tooley's declaration is that NS only(no body sizing) is outdated(in his opinion). And unless turned, donuts are inherent to all cases -by manufacture method. Also unless a FL die fits like a glove, with a chamber that is not excess in clearances(not SAAMI max), FL sizing absolutely does contribute to donuts.

    As far as the 'what everybody does' implication, it's easy enough to find otherwise;
    Sub-Inch 600-Yard 6BR within AccurateShooter.com
    Note that Terry Brady, using a gun built with Tooley's help, did well enough using Wilson bushings(partial neck sizing), and no body sizing.
    He concedes that soon he'll have to FL size. But the only thing 'outdated' in this, and completely predictable, is that an unimproved 6BR requires body sizing eventually(not FL neck sizing, so not FL sizing). Keep in mind there is a difference between actual FL sizing and body-bushing sizing (merchandised as FL bushing dies). Many people stand behind their FL sizing as a must, when in fact -they don't.
     
  9. RockZ

    RockZ Well-Known Member

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    i read the article..very good info.
    I see that he only Neck Sizes but doesn't mention "partial".
    In this context he means that he doesn't Body Size until the case needs it,he simply sizes the neck, but doesn't mention how much of the neck he sizes.
    At the bench you can put the bullets in the lands and only size a small portion of the neck and most likely get the best precision.
    In the field I like to keep the bullets off the lands and also size enough of the neck to hold the bullet and retain concentricity with the slightly tougher field environment.
     
  10. dragman

    dragman Well-Known Member

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    I FL size and I set my bushing to only size down 2/3 or so of the way down the neck (basically down to where the bearing surface of the bullets ends and the boat tail starts)
    I come from a bench rest back round and that is the way that almost all of the guys I know do it. I think in the end it all depends on the reamer and how your chamber is set up but I can see nothing wrong with how we do it and I have had some problems when sizing the whole neck so I will keep doing it my way.
     
  11. BountyHunter

    BountyHunter Well-Known Member

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    MikeCR

    [quoteThe context of Dave Tooley's declaration is that NS only(no body sizing) is outdated(in his opinion). And unless turned, donuts are inherent to all cases -by manufacture method. Also unless a FL die fits like a glove, with a chamber that is not excess in clearances(not SAAMI max), FL sizing absolutely does contribute to donuts. [/quote]

    Dave Tooleys opinion is hell of lot more authoritative and backed by years of experience than MikeCRs . Dave Tooley was the first to AI the 338 lapua back in the early 80s and is recognized as one of the top leading industry experts. He is hired by the military and dark side SOF to help them, Acc Intl to work their chambers and barrels for the sniper rifles and to train their gunsmiths in England. He is hired by Hornady and others to help develop new bullets, chamber designs etc. So yes his word should be taken as chipped in stone gospel over MikeCRs.

    I will buy tickets for you to go challenge Tooley and other real experts as to your slanted beliefs based on shooting and reloading nothing larger than a 6.5 WSSM and staying 10% below SAAMI so you can claim NS only is the way, as you openly state when you do not you have to size the body every time.

    As for the BS on FL sizing causing donuts, just where is that authoritatively written other than in MikeCRs mind? Post that on crap on BR central and 6BR and get the majority there to back you up then maybe you might have something. Word of warning, wear your asbestos underwear.

    However, I congratulate you for perusing 104 weeks of guns of the week to find the one guy who NS (for now as he says until he has to FL size). So really was not that easy as you stated. Another BS'ism.

    Here are a few that know that FL sizing with fitted dies and normally bushings are the way to go for top brass life AND accuracy.

    6.5-284s of the Hoover Clan within AccurateShooter.com

    6BR Texas Tack-Driver within AccurateShooter.com

    Euro-Champion F-TR Rig by Bottomley within AccurateShooter.com

    Vince’s 7mm WSM Record-Breaker within AccurateShooter.com

    Beginski’s New 6mm-6.5×47 Lapua within AccurateShooter.com

    Baney’s 6BR “Lil’ Big Gun” within AccurateShooter.com

    Darrell Jones 6.5×47 Lapua within AccurateShooter.com

    Harvey’s Record-Setting 600yd 6BR within AccurateShooter.com

    7mm WSM — High-Country Hunter within AccurateShooter.com

    Terry Cross Tactical 260AI within AccurateShooter.com

    6mm Remington Ackley Varminter within AccurateShooter.com

    Bounty Hunter’s 6BR Imp Light Gun within AccurateShooter.com

    DeSimone’s Dynamic Duo within AccurateShooter.com


    THINK ABOUT THIS!!!

    If an OP comes here and has to ask the question, then it should be obvious that they do not have the experience and probably tools to control parameters to make NS only work.

    Not once has anyone who advocates NS only talked about the correct way the reliability hazards of NS only, how to check chamber fit; talked about taking the firing pin out and actually safely checking to see IF the NS rounds will actually fit the chamber and bolt close. Plus guess what, there is no way to check and see if you are going to get hard opening on firing in a hunting situation and force you to deal with a hard/jammed bolt when you need a second shot. I have called MikeCR on that before and yet he refuses to mention it. That is a great disservice to anyone asking the question! That is why I throw the BS flag everytime MikCR posts a 10% of the facts BS response to the uninformed.

    It is not that I am FL size only, I always use either a body die and NS die or normally standard bushing dies. But I have learned over many years that NS only in a hunting and competition world is a mishap waiting to happen and it will.

    I have learned to match my dies to my chamber to optimize accuracy and brass life with totally reliable rounds. NS only has proven to be unreliable in that aspect time and time again. That is what we need to be talking about.