Million dollar idea!!!!

[bluedog69]

So thinking about smokeless muzzleloaders and wondered if a barrel could be made with a threaded plug with a primer pocket in it. It would also need to sit down inside the bolt face ring.

If you can remage or Savage and do headspace with a barrel nut why not have a muzzloader barrel that would "headspace" on the bolt face?

Maybe make a jag tip that would punch spent primer? Have to come up with a tool to insert new primer.

 

[bluedog69]

So did everyone run out to try this idea on their lathe?

Is the "head spacing" on the bolt face and primer removal and inserting a new primer just not feasible?

 

[MagnumManiac]

May as well use a cartridge case……
Just saying.

Cheers.

 

[Lrreloader]

I have a remington 700ml modified in a way the 209 primer sits on the bolt face using a shell holder and then bolt face locates on the removable breech plug, the primer fits inside breach plug and bolt face seals the ignition area to prevent any blow back

 

[huntinfool18]

It's already been done and in use for quite awhile now

 

[Coyote Shadow Tracker]

Why are so many hunters trying to make a Black Powder Muzzle Loader, Flint Lock or Cap & Ball that is still classified as a "PRIMITIVE WEAPON" for most areas and seasons to hunt into a modern cartridge rifle?. That's way it is "PRIMITIVE WEAPON" not a barrel loaded with smokeless powder cartridges then having a separate primer.
If you are going to hunt with a "Muzzle Loader" why not hunt with one. Why try to make the pre loaded cartridges and 209 primers loaded into a rifle that shoots just like a modern rifle. Seems like these hunters are missing the point of "PRIMITIVE WEAPON".
Now there are "In Line Muzzle loaders and newer ones with the cartridge made with the bullet and powder, but no primer. On top of that they are making "PRIMITIVE WEAPON" with "Smokeless Powder".
I just can't see going to hunt in a regulated Season for "PRIMITIVE WEAPON" and using the same thing as a modern rifle. When I hunted in PA during Muzzle Loader I used a Hawkins .50ca Flint Lock. Later on in GA I upgraded to a Thompson Center .50 Inline with a 209 primer and Hodgon 50gr Black Powder Pellets. I always thought that I was cheating using the rifle even with Iron Sights. Then GA law changed to using Optics - SCOPES. A deer or another animal had now chance with me behind my Thompson Center Thumb Hole stock with a 3X9 Nikon Scope loaded with 3-50gr pellets of Hodgon Black powder and a 250 gr 40cal Hornady SST sabot bullet. I shot touching holes at 100yrds. Might as well hunt with my .243, .260, 7mm08, 32 special, .325 WSM. You only really need ONE shot to take you animal!

I just think that if you are hunting "PRIMITIVE WEAPON" - Hunt that way. Don't make your rifle into the same as a modern cartridge rifle. Just a hunters Opinion.

 

[bluedog69]

Why are so many hunters trying to make a Black Powder Muzzle Loader, Flint Lock or Cap & Ball that is still classified as a "PRIMITIVE WEAPON" for most areas and seasons to hunt into a modern cartridge rifle?. That's way it is "PRIMITIVE WEAPON" not a barrel loaded with smokeless powder cartridges then having a separate primer.
If you are going to hunt with a "Muzzle Loader" why not hunt with one. Why try to make the pre loaded cartridges and 209 primers loaded into a rifle that shoots just like a modern rifle. Seems like these hunters are missing the point of "PRIMITIVE WEAPON".
Now there are "In Line Muzzle loaders and newer ones with the cartridge made with the bullet and powder, but no primer. On top of that they are making "PRIMITIVE WEAPON" with "Smokeless Powder".
I just can't see going to hunt in a regulated Season for "PRIMITIVE WEAPON" and using the same thing as a modern rifle. When I hunted in PA during Muzzle Loader I used a Hawkins .50ca Flint Lock. Later on in GA I upgraded to a Thompson Center .50 Inline with a 209 primer and Hodgon 50gr Black Powder Pellets. I always thought that I was cheating using the rifle even with Iron Sights. Then GA law changed to using Optics - SCOPES. A deer or another animal had now chance with me behind my Thompson Center Thumb Hole stock with a 3X9 Nikon Scope loaded with 3-50gr pellets of Hodgon Black powder and a 250 gr 40cal Hornady SST sabot bullet. I shot touching holes at 100yrds. Might as well hunt with my .243, .260, 7mm08, 32 special, .325 WSM. You only really need ONE shot to take you animal!

I just think that if you are hunting "PRIMITIVE WEAPON" - Hunt that way. Don't make your rifle into the same as a modern cartridge rifle. Just a hunters Opinion.

I got a great big smile reading all of this.
1) Missouri has turned crossbows or should I say crossguns loose for all of archery. I don't own a cross gun and hope never need to hunt with one. I love archery and getting close. Your post sounded like it was straight off of the Missouri forum.

2) Missouri used to have a muzzleloader season. It got turned into alternative season. Which is virtually anything but a center fire rifle. Missouri just had to redefine what a pistol is because guys were using AR style "pistols". Small rifles in reality.

I wish they would put it back to just a muzzleloader. Although my 9 year old "judged" a deer with a 45 Long Colt last year. That was pretty awesome.

 

[CMP70306]

Why are so many hunters trying to make a Black Powder Muzzle Loader, Flint Lock or Cap & Ball that is still classified as a "PRIMITIVE WEAPON" for most areas and seasons to hunt into a modern cartridge rifle?. That's way it is "PRIMITIVE WEAPON" not a barrel loaded with smokeless powder cartridges then having a separate primer.
If you are going to hunt with a "Muzzle Loader" why not hunt with one. Why try to make the pre loaded cartridges and 209 primers loaded into a rifle that shoots just like a modern rifle. Seems like these hunters are missing the point of "PRIMITIVE WEAPON".
Now there are "In Line Muzzle loaders and newer ones with the cartridge made with the bullet and powder, but no primer. On top of that they are making "PRIMITIVE WEAPON" with "Smokeless Powder".
I just can't see going to hunt in a regulated Season for "PRIMITIVE WEAPON" and using the same thing as a modern rifle. When I hunted in PA during Muzzle Loader I used a Hawkins .50ca Flint Lock. Later on in GA I upgraded to a Thompson Center .50 Inline with a 209 primer and Hodgon 50gr Black Powder Pellets. I always thought that I was cheating using the rifle even with Iron Sights. Then GA law changed to using Optics - SCOPES. A deer or another animal had now chance with me behind my Thompson Center Thumb Hole stock with a 3X9 Nikon Scope loaded with 3-50gr pellets of Hodgon Black powder and a 250 gr 40cal Hornady SST sabot bullet. I shot touching holes at 100yrds. Might as well hunt with my .243, .260, 7mm08, 32 special, .325 WSM. You only really need ONE shot to take you animal!

I just think that if you are hunting "PRIMITIVE WEAPON" - Hunt that way. Don't make your rifle into the same as a modern cartridge rifle. Just a hunters Opinion.

Easy because I like rifles, I like shooting rifles, I like hunting with rifles and if it was up to me I would hunt the entire PA deer season from October to January with nothing but one of the many different rifles I own. Personally if I wanted a short range challenge I'd rather hunt with my 1873 in .45 colt than a bow and my 1874 Sharps is only a percussion cap nipple different than its 1863 predecessor which legally counts as a muzzleloader in PA.

The only reason I don't is because the rules say I can't and limit my rifle hunting to a two week period starting the Saturday after Thanksgiving. Since that is the case I will pick the closest thing to a rifle that I legally can in any season that I hunt and since I can I use a smokeless prefit muzzleloader barrel on my hunting rifle in the early October season that is what I choose to use.

 

[bluedog69]

It's already been done and in use for quite awhile now

I am always a day late and a dollar short!

 

[Flintlock shooter]

Guess it's not too hard to figure out what I hunt with. My opinion is that a "primitive weapon" should be the only type of weapon used in a primitive weapons season. No in-lines, no compound bows, etc.

 

[seattleman1969]

Why are so many hunters trying to make a Black Powder Muzzle Loader, Flint Lock or Cap & Ball that is still classified as a "PRIMITIVE WEAPON" for most areas and seasons to hunt into a modern cartridge rifle?. That's way it is "PRIMITIVE WEAPON" not a barrel loaded with smokeless powder cartridges then having a separate primer.
If you are going to hunt with a "Muzzle Loader" why not hunt with one. Why try to make the pre loaded cartridges and 209 primers loaded into a rifle that shoots just like a modern rifle. Seems like these hunters are missing the point of "PRIMITIVE WEAPON".
Now there are "In Line Muzzle loaders and newer ones with the cartridge made with the bullet and powder, but no primer. On top of that they are making "PRIMITIVE WEAPON" with "Smokeless Powder".
I just can't see going to hunt in a regulated Season for "PRIMITIVE WEAPON" and using the same thing as a modern rifle. When I hunted in PA during Muzzle Loader I used a Hawkins .50ca Flint Lock. Later on in GA I upgraded to a Thompson Center .50 Inline with a 209 primer and Hodgon 50gr Black Powder Pellets. I always thought that I was cheating using the rifle even with Iron Sights. Then GA law changed to using Optics - SCOPES. A deer or another animal had now chance with me behind my Thompson Center Thumb Hole stock with a 3X9 Nikon Scope loaded with 3-50gr pellets of Hodgon Black powder and a 250 gr 40cal Hornady SST sabot bullet. I shot touching holes at 100yrds. Might as well hunt with my .243, .260, 7mm08, 32 special, .325 WSM. You only really need ONE shot to take you animal!

I just think that if you are hunting "PRIMITIVE WEAPON" - Hunt that way. Don't make your rifle into the same as a modern cartridge rifle. Just a hunters Opinion.

I agree with you. Primitive means primitive, not "modern-primitive"

My personal favorite is the Lyman Plains rifle, I've had both cap and flintlock models in .50 and .54. First experience with them was in Washington State, my two best buddies and I went in and bought the same .50 cal cap rifle and hunted Roosevelt Elk for several years with them. Talk about rough, forget about getting close, keeping your powder and nipple dry was the biggest challenge of all! Sometimes just the humidity would soak everything. Nothing worse than a pop and no bang, or just a click, when you are drawn down on a critter!

We went to archery after a few years and joked that spears out of trees was next.

 

[seattleman1969]

Guess it's not too hard to figure out what I hunt with. My opinion is that a "primitive weapon" should be the only type of weapon used in a primitive weapons season. No in-lines, no compound bows, etc.

Well, a compound bow, without rangefinder, lighted sights, etc... etc... is not that THAT much more effective than a recurve or longbow wielded by a well-trained archer. These people taking super long compound shots on TV are really pushing it too far. Too much can go wrong.

That is why I appreciate Montana's efforts to fight against adding anything electronic to a bow that adds efficiency. You can have a camera attached that can film the shot and lighted nocks, and that is it. And requiring bowhunters education with an emphasis on ethics and knowing your limitations.

 

[timo308]

So thinking about smokeless muzzleloaders and wondered if a barrel could be made with a threaded plug with a primer pocket in it. It would also need to sit down inside the bolt face ring.

If you can remage or Savage and do headspace with a barrel nut why not have a muzzloader barrel that would "headspace" on the bolt face?

Maybe make a jag tip that would punch spent primer? Have to come up with a tool to insert new primer.

Jeff Hankins of Hankins Custom Rifles has been making these using Brux barrels for Remington and Savage actions for a while now. He even had a video out on YouTube showing how to headspace them to the action.

 

[Pro2A]

Why are so many hunters trying to make a Black Powder Muzzle Loader, Flint Lock or Cap & Ball that is still classified as a "PRIMITIVE WEAPON" for most areas and seasons to hunt into a modern cartridge rifle?. That's way it is "PRIMITIVE WEAPON" not a barrel loaded with smokeless powder cartridges then having a separate primer.
If you are going to hunt with a "Muzzle Loader" why not hunt with one. Why try to make the pre loaded cartridges and 209 primers loaded into a rifle that shoots just like a modern rifle. Seems like these hunters are missing the point of "PRIMITIVE WEAPON".
Now there are "In Line Muzzle loaders and newer ones with the cartridge made with the bullet and powder, but no primer. On top of that they are making "PRIMITIVE WEAPON" with "Smokeless Powder".
I just can't see going to hunt in a regulated Season for "PRIMITIVE WEAPON" and using the same thing as a modern rifle. When I hunted in PA during Muzzle Loader I used a Hawkins .50ca Flint Lock. Later on in GA I upgraded to a Thompson Center .50 Inline with a 209 primer and Hodgon 50gr Black Powder Pellets. I always thought that I was cheating using the rifle even with Iron Sights. Then GA law changed to using Optics - SCOPES. A deer or another animal had now chance with me behind my Thompson Center Thumb Hole stock with a 3X9 Nikon Scope loaded with 3-50gr pellets of Hodgon Black powder and a 250 gr 40cal Hornady SST sabot bullet. I shot touching holes at 100yrds. Might as well hunt with my .243, .260, 7mm08, 32 special, .325 WSM. You only really need ONE shot to take you animal!

I just think that if you are hunting "PRIMITIVE WEAPON" - Hunt that way. Don't make your rifle into the same as a modern cartridge rifle. Just a hunters Opinion.

Just a personal observation. I know several ethical hunters that chose the route you are questioning just in order to be able to effectively hunt primitive season to take more meat for the freezer to actually feed their families, donate to less fortunate families. They are meat hunting rather than hunting for primitive weapon sport fun/challenge. Hides to veterans programs; meat to selves or other needy people. They aren't wearing a coon skin hat playing Davy Crockett.