Meanwhile on RS they're killin bear, deer, elk , and moose with .223 and 77gr TMK.

[HandgunHTR]

Just my humble opinion to my friends here, but for me, using a caliber that is generally considered way too small, is as incorrect as using a caliber that is way bigger and mor powerful that necessary, and the shooter cannot control it. With the exception of the top 2 or 3 percent of the excellent precise shooters (present company included here ) who can take big game with small calibers, the rest of the hunting population who shoot three rounds or LESS a year prior to the hunt, should be discouraged from attempting such a feat. I am sorry to say I know way too many "Hunters " who literally shoot one or two rounds at a 10 inch target at 100 yards, If they print in the black, they say the ,magic words. "Thats a Dead Deer ". and that's it!!! A box of bullets should last 4 or 5 years. I think the game deserves far better consideration that that. A small miss with a small light bullet, can result in a wounded animal, and the same hold true for the guy using his 300 Win or Weatherby mag, once a year, and hitting the deer way too far back, causing a long tracking job, and a delayed death of the animal. With so many correct and suitable calibers and bullet weights available, why not use what is generally time honored , and considered appropriate. Unless, of course , you are among that 2 or 3 percent who are exceptional shooters. I , for one, need my 270 Win for whitetail. I always will. Just my humble opinion,

That is part of the point of using smaller chamberings for big game. With today's bullet designs they are much more effective than yesteryears bullets.
The two main reasons given for lack of practice is money and recoil. The .223 solves both. An average hunter can effectively hit within 2-4 inches of where they aim 90% of the time, given a bit of practice. You don't have to be an exceptional shooter. Everyone I have put behind a small caliber rifle is much more effective on target than they are with their bigger guns. Contrary to popular belief deer and elk are not armor-plated. Their vital zone is quite large as well. Put a bullet in there and they die. Period.

As for the "conventional wisdom" regarding a bigger bullet bieng able to compensate for poor shot placement, that is just BS. A small caliber, frangible bullet is actually more effective if you gut shoot them than a large caliber bonded or monometal bullet. And there is plenty of evidence that they will also penetrate bone, so that argument is also invalid. As I said to open, bullets have come a long way.

 

[Moondoggie]

Haven't found a heavy that will stabilize in my 220 swift.....yet. Still tinker a little along with it, but newer toys always get played with more. I haven't tried the tmk but have the sierra mk. Hornady has an impressive selection of grains. I need to try some Bergers also. If only bullets weren't so dang expensive.

Heard somewhere, maybe on this site, that out of all the components, the bullet is the one that actually does the killing. Another often used quote.

 

[Darryle]

@Darryle thats interesting that your 8 twist wouldn't stabilize those 70-somethings. My 9 twist bolt gun did at 100yds (factory ammo) but the groups weren't great.

16" Satern 223 Wylde, I just don't think I had the needed velocity, it was a sub 1 on Bergers stability calculator, something like .94

 

[xsn10s]

Haven't found a heavy that will stabilize in my 220 swift.....yet. Still tinker a little along with it, but newer toys always get played with more. I haven't tried the tmk but have the sierra mk. Hornady has an impressive selection of grains. I need to try some Bergers also. If only bullets weren't so dang expensive.

Heard somewhere, maybe on this site, that out of all the components, the bullet is the one that actually does the killing. Another often used quote.

Most 220 Swifts had a slow twist from the factory. I'd check the barrel twist rate and just use the bullets that fit the twist. Or if you really want to shoot the heavier 22 cal bullets then get a new barrel with the right twist rate. 220 Swift would be great for this.

 

[stovepipe]

Haven't found a heavy that will stabilize in my 220 swift.....yet. Still tinker a little along with it, but newer toys always get played with more. I haven't tried the tmk but have the sierra mk. Hornady has an impressive selection of grains. I need to try some Bergers also. If only bullets weren't so dang expensive.

Heard somewhere, maybe on this site, that out of all the components, the bullet is the one that actually does the killing. Another often used quote.

Moondoggie, have you tried the sierra 63 grain SMP? Folks claim they work good in 14 twist, I have a couple boxes to in my swift but haven't got around to it yet

 

[memtb]

The terminal ballistics pics are pretty impressive. The power of the cup and core. https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/223-for-bear-deer-elk-and-moose.130488/

I have no (polite) words to say! memtb

 

[Snowboy]

That is part of the point of using smaller chamberings for big game. With today's bullet designs they are much more effective than yesteryears bullets.
The two main reasons given for lack of practice is money and recoil. The .223 solves both. An average hunter can effectively hit within 2-4 inches of where they aim 90% of the time, given a bit of practice. You don't have to be an exceptional shooter. Everyone I have put behind a small caliber rifle is much more effective on target than they are with their bigger guns. Contrary to popular belief deer and elk are not armor-plated. Their vital zone is quite large as well. Put a bullet in there and they die. Period.

As for the "conventional wisdom" regarding a bigger bullet bieng able to compensate for poor shot placement, that is just BS. A small caliber, frangible bullet is actually more effective if you gut shoot them than a large caliber bonded or monometal bullet. And there is plenty of evidence that they will also penetrate bone, so that argument is also invalid. As I said to open, bullets have come a long way.

Sorry but 60 years of experience disagrees.

 

[Moondoggie]

Moondoggie, have you tried the sierra 63 grain SMP? Folks claim they work good in 14 twist, I have a couple boxes to in my swift but haven't got around to it yet

Not tried them. Have tried two 62 grain bullets and they both under 1 moa.

 

[Moondoggie]

Most 220 Swifts had a slow twist from the factory. I'd check the barrel twist rate and just use the bullets that fit the twist. Or if you really want to shoot the heavier 22 cal bullets then get a new barrel with the right twist rate. 220 Swift would be great for this.

Older swift, have 1:14 twist. Would be nice to purchase one of the newer fast twist barrels that can 'throw' those heavies. I would love to have a slightly larger 'new' caliber, 6 creed, 240 weatherby magnum, etc. to throw them. But given the current state of affairs in the world, I'm putting that $ into a small herd of Zebu and Dexter cattle. Finished pasture, now comes fencing. Fence alone would buy a nice rifle and optic!

 

[xsn10s]

Older swift, have 1:14 twist. Would be nice to purchase one of the newer fast twist barrels that can 'throw' those heavies. I would love to have a slightly larger 'new' caliber, 6 creed, 240 weatherby magnum, etc. to throw them. But given the current state of affairs in the world, I'm putting that $ into a small herd of Zebu and Dexter cattle. Finished pasture, now comes fencing. Fence alone would buy a nice rifle and optic!

Gotta have priorities. The last bullet my shot out 1-14" 22-250 barrel would shoot was the flat base 55 gr Berger Target Match. Good enough to drop a chuck and expand at 583 yards.

Berger .224 55 gr Match Flat Base on varmints

Ok, Ok I got caught up trying to help a fellow shooter out. I didn’t realize you already knew everything and had an attitude. I’m out Gary

www.longrangehunting.com

 

[Small Lady]

Don't get me wrong, I am impressed, it's the damage to the shoulder meat when hitting bone. Those that hit the sweet spot behind the shoulder see very little of that excessive damage, but you are correct, it absolutely destroys the internal organs.

I want a bullet that has our current long range bullet accuracy with the properties of the older soft point bullet's ability to make a small entrance, mushroom to twice or more it's original diameter and hit the light switch on the way out with very little to no wasted meat.

Sounds like you want a 243 and these little things.

 

[Small Lady]

I only get one kick at connecting with my targeted game therefore I want maximum performance down wind on the connecting end. Can't go wrong with 7mm or .308 caliber if you don't mind the recoil. Yes a .222 Rem. will kill just about anything 'if' I have the right set up. That is rare for me.

For longer shots I definitely agree.
We are fortunate enough here that we often don't have to make long shots for most game. The exceptions tend to be bison, and big horns, which are regularly 300 to 800 yards. The reason I bought a 7prc was more for the long shots I hope to be hunting at in the future. The 7 prc is great at those distances, where I wouldn't even think about hunting with something small.
My boss is of the mind set that everyone should only hunt with a 338, no matter what or how close. He actually says so more jokingly than serious, but yet a bit of him is serious that a 338 is the perfect do it all rifle. I love him, and best boss ever, but not everything in life should be fixed with just one tool in my opinion.
Same thing for guns.
That annoying neighbors cat that digs up your flower bed, may not require a 338 at 12 yards, possibly a super soaker squirt gun is the correct tool for that.

 

[sierracharlie338]

16" Satern 223 Wylde, I just don't think I had the needed velocity, it was a sub 1 on Bergers stability calculator, something like .94

That's interesting. Thanks for sharing

 

[Reelamin]

I guess we must have done it old school. Late 70's into 80's on depredation permits we (3 people) shot stupid number of Mule Deer (At least 2-300 Does, Bucks, Yearlings, Fawns...if it was in the fence line it died) with a 223 (Ruger Mini 14). Shot them in the head if close and standing, then lung shots if moving, 10-300yds normally. Started with Soft Point factory ammo. Too expensive then factory 55gr FMJ, and then reloads using the 55gr Hornady 55gr SXSP and at the end 55 Ballistic Tips. Yes some body shots required a follow up, and major majority of them were dead or down by the time we swung back for clean up. Today I would do the same thing on the same kind of killing, yet for hunting I would use something different. Edit....60gr Partition.