Travis1971
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Anyone in recent times build a long range rifle of these old actions? Are the worth the time? Money , ect?
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Mauser 98 question
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FearNoWind
Well-Known Member
Sure wish I had the money and materials to build a .308 on a Mauser action.
I think that'd be a fine shooter.
If you build using a Mauser action you'll more than likely have to turn the bolt handle downward to provide for mounting a scope. But, IMO, there are few modern actions that are superior to the Mauser.
I love the smooth performance and the claw extractor.
I think that'd be a fine shooter.
If you build using a Mauser action you'll more than likely have to turn the bolt handle downward to provide for mounting a scope. But, IMO, there are few modern actions that are superior to the Mauser.
I love the smooth performance and the claw extractor.
sable tireur
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Travis1971,
I think it depends on which of the myriad of Mauser variations you might be referring to. Some are still considered to be a top selection for high performance rifles in the field of hunting. But in reality there are few if any that will be acknowledged in the field of long range accuracy. I thinks it's by omission rather than lack of quality, though. There are simply too many excellent new actions on the market to pay attention to while forgetting the Mauser M98 design.
I have several 'long range' rifles which are built on Mauser actions from the M98 to the FN improved version up to the current modern renditions. All will perform excellently at longer ranges out past 600 yards when the work to create the rifle and development of the loads is kept at the highest level.
I have a Mauser single shot action which I used for a 1,000 yard rifle chambered for the 6mm Crusader (modified 6mm Remington) cartridge which will stay well under 1/2 MOA out to the targets. I also used an FN Improved Mauser and an older 1909 Argentine Mauser for similar 1,000 yard rifles which perform at about the same level. One is chambered for the .264 Winchester Magnum and the other is a wildcat 6.5mm cartridge. I can compete with the other shooters using the modern actions when I'm up to the challenge. We all have good days and bad days on the line.
I do not advocate buying some cheap, old, used piece of junk bastardized by some amateur who thought they were a gunsmith. These are not in the same category as the actions I mention.
Regards.
I think it depends on which of the myriad of Mauser variations you might be referring to. Some are still considered to be a top selection for high performance rifles in the field of hunting. But in reality there are few if any that will be acknowledged in the field of long range accuracy. I thinks it's by omission rather than lack of quality, though. There are simply too many excellent new actions on the market to pay attention to while forgetting the Mauser M98 design.
I have several 'long range' rifles which are built on Mauser actions from the M98 to the FN improved version up to the current modern renditions. All will perform excellently at longer ranges out past 600 yards when the work to create the rifle and development of the loads is kept at the highest level.
I have a Mauser single shot action which I used for a 1,000 yard rifle chambered for the 6mm Crusader (modified 6mm Remington) cartridge which will stay well under 1/2 MOA out to the targets. I also used an FN Improved Mauser and an older 1909 Argentine Mauser for similar 1,000 yard rifles which perform at about the same level. One is chambered for the .264 Winchester Magnum and the other is a wildcat 6.5mm cartridge. I can compete with the other shooters using the modern actions when I'm up to the challenge. We all have good days and bad days on the line.
I do not advocate buying some cheap, old, used piece of junk bastardized by some amateur who thought they were a gunsmith. These are not in the same category as the actions I mention.
Regards.
jw308
Well-Known Member
I have a VZ24 that I put a bull barrel on in 308. It shoots pretty good out to around 600 yards. I was cheap when I bought the barrel. I got a Adams and Bennet barrel from midway. Its picky about its loads. It shoots 1 moa or better with 168 bergers and 175 Noslers hpbt's. I also put a timney trigger on it that is much better then the 2 stage trigger that was on it. All in all im pretty happy with the gun. Just wish I would have spent a little more on the barrel. When I get time I'll replace it.
Happy shooting.. gun)
Happy shooting.
. gun)I have 2 rifles built off mauser actions, they take a lot of work. I got the actions for next to nothing, the only reason I attempted a build. I put an adams & bennet barrel on one that doesn't shoot worth a **** with anything I have tried through it. The other one has a cheap barrel as well and it shoots lights out, which amazes me because the rifle has slightly looser tolerances than my other mauser that doesn't shoot. When those barrels are shot out or when I get the time I am going to rebarrel at least the non shooter with a quality barrel and see if it will straighten things out.
If you build one, I would recommend building off of a commercial action or an already sporterized action that was done by a smith who knew what they were doing. You will need to use a quality barrel and also invest in a timney trigger. Oh and lets not forget a stock. Cost $100 for the action, $400 barrel, $250 stock, $80 trigger. Price tag $830 and that doesn't cover any gunsmith work. All said and done I would have probably been better off and further ahead leaving the mausers alone and buying a couple of tikkas.
If it is something you want to try then go for it, but make sure your expectations aren't too high for the finished rifle.
If you build one, I would recommend building off of a commercial action or an already sporterized action that was done by a smith who knew what they were doing. You will need to use a quality barrel and also invest in a timney trigger. Oh and lets not forget a stock. Cost $100 for the action, $400 barrel, $250 stock, $80 trigger. Price tag $830 and that doesn't cover any gunsmith work. All said and done I would have probably been better off and further ahead leaving the mausers alone and buying a couple of tikkas.
If it is something you want to try then go for it, but make sure your expectations aren't too high for the finished rifle.
FearNoWind
Well-Known Member
That's certainly excellent advice. When I speak about my own interest in building on a Mauser action I should, as I clearly did not, include that condition. If you can't be sure of the quality of the parts you're including in your build then forget about it.
benchracer
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Building on an old military action is something one does because they like them. Done properly, you will have a very good shooter and a fine rifle. In terms of dollars spent, though, it probably doesn't make sense to do it. My first build made more economic sense because it was inexpensive to do at the time. For what you will have to pay for a decent condition/quality military mauser rifle/action these days, it doesn't really make sense to do it.
As mentioned, if you want to build a mauser rifle, the best way to go is to use a commercial action. The Zastava made Mk X mauser action is an excellent base for a build and can be had at attractive enough prices (if you shop around) to make it very worthwhile. It comes from the factory with a fully adjustable trigger, so there is no need to replace it with an aftermarket trigger. Not a lot of gunsmithing work is needed on these. Have the bolt lugs lapped, the bolt face and receiver face squared up, and a quality barrel installed. Drop the whole thing in a B&C Medalist stock (or have it bedded in a laminate stock of your choice) and you will have a rifle that will easily outperform any comparably priced factory rifle.
I built a 6.5x55 using a Zastava Mk X action, B&C Medalist, and a Shilen CM 26" #4 contour barrel. Not including optics, it cost about $1000 to build and shoots Berger 140 VLD's in the .3's and .4's consistently.
I have the parts for another Mark X build waiting to go together. This one is going to get a Bartlein 5r chambered for .300 Win Mag. It will cost around $1300 before optics.
If you decide to do any mauser build, my advice is to avoid skimping on barrel quality and DO NOT buy pre-fit barrels. My first build was on a milsurp BRNO action with an Adams & Bennett barrel. It shot OK, but I was never happy with it. I ended up pulling it and having it replaced with a pre-fit Shilen. With the Shilen, it is an excellent shooter. I would have been way ahead to go with the Shilen (which is still considered to be a mediocre barrel by a lot of folks) to begin with. After that experience, Shilen barrels are my new personal minimum.
Though I have had good results from pre-fit barrels, I say to avoid them for two reasons: (1) Pre-fit barrels cost more to buy (and don't save you any money if you have them installed by a smith). (2) They are often MORE difficult to install. Most smiths prefer to cut their own threads when installing a barrel to get a better fit. It is not uncommon for the threads on a pre-fit barrel to be a poor match to the action threads. You are better off just buying your contoured barrel of choice and having your smith thread and chamber it. It will cost a bit less and your smith will be happier with you.
If you have the skills and tools, and you like to do some of your own work, you may be able to save SOME coin on the build by applying the metal finish yourself and/or doing your own bedding and stock finish work. It all depends on what you want your rifle to be in the end.
I LOVE mausers. If you plan carefully, choose components carefully, and shop carefully, you CAN come up with a worthwhile build on a commercial action, in all practical respects. The same is not true with a build based on a milsurp action. Two of the three milsurp based rifles I have are built on actions bought at a time when I had a source for quality BRNO actions (on tired milsurp rifles) @ $70 each. You couldn't touch the same actions in comparable condition now for three times that.
My most recent build is in progress on a VZ-24 action that I paid $200+ for because it was in exceptional condition. This will be an expensive build, as I am doing none of the work myself. I am going to the trouble and expense simply because I love mausers and I know the end result will be pleasing to me. Judged by dollars and cents, this build really doesn't make much sense, but that is seldom the driving force behind a custom rifle. It will probably be my last build on a milsurp action.
As mentioned, if you want to build a mauser rifle, the best way to go is to use a commercial action. The Zastava made Mk X mauser action is an excellent base for a build and can be had at attractive enough prices (if you shop around) to make it very worthwhile. It comes from the factory with a fully adjustable trigger, so there is no need to replace it with an aftermarket trigger. Not a lot of gunsmithing work is needed on these. Have the bolt lugs lapped, the bolt face and receiver face squared up, and a quality barrel installed. Drop the whole thing in a B&C Medalist stock (or have it bedded in a laminate stock of your choice) and you will have a rifle that will easily outperform any comparably priced factory rifle.
I built a 6.5x55 using a Zastava Mk X action, B&C Medalist, and a Shilen CM 26" #4 contour barrel. Not including optics, it cost about $1000 to build and shoots Berger 140 VLD's in the .3's and .4's consistently.
I have the parts for another Mark X build waiting to go together. This one is going to get a Bartlein 5r chambered for .300 Win Mag. It will cost around $1300 before optics.
If you decide to do any mauser build, my advice is to avoid skimping on barrel quality and DO NOT buy pre-fit barrels. My first build was on a milsurp BRNO action with an Adams & Bennett barrel. It shot OK, but I was never happy with it. I ended up pulling it and having it replaced with a pre-fit Shilen. With the Shilen, it is an excellent shooter. I would have been way ahead to go with the Shilen (which is still considered to be a mediocre barrel by a lot of folks) to begin with. After that experience, Shilen barrels are my new personal minimum.
Though I have had good results from pre-fit barrels, I say to avoid them for two reasons: (1) Pre-fit barrels cost more to buy (and don't save you any money if you have them installed by a smith). (2) They are often MORE difficult to install. Most smiths prefer to cut their own threads when installing a barrel to get a better fit. It is not uncommon for the threads on a pre-fit barrel to be a poor match to the action threads. You are better off just buying your contoured barrel of choice and having your smith thread and chamber it. It will cost a bit less and your smith will be happier with you.
If you have the skills and tools, and you like to do some of your own work, you may be able to save SOME coin on the build by applying the metal finish yourself and/or doing your own bedding and stock finish work. It all depends on what you want your rifle to be in the end.
I LOVE mausers. If you plan carefully, choose components carefully, and shop carefully, you CAN come up with a worthwhile build on a commercial action, in all practical respects. The same is not true with a build based on a milsurp action. Two of the three milsurp based rifles I have are built on actions bought at a time when I had a source for quality BRNO actions (on tired milsurp rifles) @ $70 each. You couldn't touch the same actions in comparable condition now for three times that.
My most recent build is in progress on a VZ-24 action that I paid $200+ for because it was in exceptional condition. This will be an expensive build, as I am doing none of the work myself. I am going to the trouble and expense simply because I love mausers and I know the end result will be pleasing to me. Judged by dollars and cents, this build really doesn't make much sense, but that is seldom the driving force behind a custom rifle. It will probably be my last build on a milsurp action.
airborneike
Active Member
Travis1971,
Short answer is yes...Long answer is only if you have plenty of money or have the ability to do the work for yourself.
My brother (who holds a few IBS 600 yard records) and I did an experiment just for fun to actually see if a mauser action could be competitive in 600 yard benchrest. We picked a Yugo 24/47 intermediate action because they are cheap and available. I did all the work and trued the action and put on a Brux barrel chambered in 6 BRX. The result was surprising in that I won some relays and the rifle consistently shot with the customs. The problems with the mauser action had to do with the ergonomics...bolt lift and smoothness etc. and was slow when trying to get rounds downrange fast.
If you are interested in mausers to save money, that is not going to happen unless you can do your own work. Mausers generally need quite a bit of work to get everything "straight and square". If too much metal is removed ( mausers are case hardened) then they need to be re-hardened and that isn't cheap either.
A labor of love would be the best reason to use mauser actions and it is a love shared by quite a few shooters.
Amongst all the customs and production rifles that I own, my favorite is a lowly Yugo 24/47 with a lightweight barrel chambered in 6.5x284. The rifle is like using a surgeon's scapel out to 800 yards or so.
Best,
Mike
Short answer is yes...Long answer is only if you have plenty of money or have the ability to do the work for yourself.
My brother (who holds a few IBS 600 yard records) and I did an experiment just for fun to actually see if a mauser action could be competitive in 600 yard benchrest. We picked a Yugo 24/47 intermediate action because they are cheap and available. I did all the work and trued the action and put on a Brux barrel chambered in 6 BRX. The result was surprising in that I won some relays and the rifle consistently shot with the customs. The problems with the mauser action had to do with the ergonomics...bolt lift and smoothness etc. and was slow when trying to get rounds downrange fast.
If you are interested in mausers to save money, that is not going to happen unless you can do your own work. Mausers generally need quite a bit of work to get everything "straight and square". If too much metal is removed ( mausers are case hardened) then they need to be re-hardened and that isn't cheap either.
A labor of love would be the best reason to use mauser actions and it is a love shared by quite a few shooters.
Amongst all the customs and production rifles that I own, my favorite is a lowly Yugo 24/47 with a lightweight barrel chambered in 6.5x284. The rifle is like using a surgeon's scapel out to 800 yards or so.
Best,
Mike
Travis1971
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I was not thinking of this to "save money" but nor do I want to just through money away. I just had not seen a lot of people talking about the old mausers and I just plan like them. I was also curious about currant build cost, I now years ago people used to chop these all the time, but I didn't know how they really could preform long range, consistently.
Bob the nailer
Well-Known Member
airborneike
Active Member
Travis1971,
The mausers will shoot as good as any if set up properly. If the barrel is fitted to the internal torque shoulder and the trued action end, it makes for a strong set-up.
Wouldn,t be inclined to chamber mausers in heavy magnums unless the action was specifically made for magnum rounds. Milsurps have limitations for safety reasons.
Mauser actions can flex some but if fitted with a good one piece base one can minimize that to some degree. Sleeveing, like the pictures "Bob the nailer" posted would take all the flex out.
There are not many gunsmiths now days who have the knowledge or desire to work on mausers...getting to be a lost art.
Best,
Mike
The mausers will shoot as good as any if set up properly. If the barrel is fitted to the internal torque shoulder and the trued action end, it makes for a strong set-up.
Wouldn,t be inclined to chamber mausers in heavy magnums unless the action was specifically made for magnum rounds. Milsurps have limitations for safety reasons.
Mauser actions can flex some but if fitted with a good one piece base one can minimize that to some degree. Sleeveing, like the pictures "Bob the nailer" posted would take all the flex out.
There are not many gunsmiths now days who have the knowledge or desire to work on mausers...getting to be a lost art.
Best,
Mike
Last edited:
morcey2
Well-Known Member
I'm always on the lookout for usable mauser actions. I've had a 257 Roberts build on one with an Adams and Benett barrel and is shoots really well. It's not a long-range gun by any means, but I have no problem shooting it out to 400 yards. It's built on a Yugo M98/48 (Yugo capture K98k) that someone else already had D&T'd. I've got a couple of others in process right now, an argentine 1909 becoming a 6mm Rem and a 1918 Gew 98 becoming a 6.5x55. Both guns were pre-butchered, but not drilled for scopes. Barrels and stocks were cut and sights changed. Neither is capable of being returned to their original glory. I know that I could probably accomplish the same thing cheaper with a Savage, but it's what I want.
Mauser actions can be great as long as you stay within the limitations of the action. I've yet to find a gun with a commercial action for less than $350 around here and they're usually more than that.
Sometimes you find a diamond in the rough. I picked up a Dominican Republic mauser in 7x57 that had fully sporterized including a new stock, trigger, scope mount, bent bolt, and glass bedded for $200. I bought it as a donor rifle but I decided to shoot it first. It has the original 20" carbine barrel (which is about 4" shorter than I like) and a really long throat. I decided to shoot it before sending it off to become something else. It shoots 1" 5-shot groups at 150 yards with mediocre handloads. So it stays as is.
Just realize that it will cost more to build on a mauser action, but if you can afford it and you know what will be involved. I do the stock bedding and metal finish work myself, so I save on those.
Matt
Mauser actions can be great as long as you stay within the limitations of the action. I've yet to find a gun with a commercial action for less than $350 around here and they're usually more than that.
Sometimes you find a diamond in the rough. I picked up a Dominican Republic mauser in 7x57 that had fully sporterized including a new stock, trigger, scope mount, bent bolt, and glass bedded for $200. I bought it as a donor rifle but I decided to shoot it first. It has the original 20" carbine barrel (which is about 4" shorter than I like) and a really long throat. I decided to shoot it before sending it off to become something else. It shoots 1" 5-shot groups at 150 yards with mediocre handloads. So it stays as is.
Just realize that it will cost more to build on a mauser action, but if you can afford it and you know what will be involved. I do the stock bedding and metal finish work myself, so I save on those.
Matt
sable tireur
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travis1971,
There are modern M98 Mauser actions being made:
Reimer Johannsen GmbH
Gottfried Prechtle
But the drawback is the price, usually in excess of $3,000/each standard length.
Granite Mountain makes variations on all sizes of the M98 including the double square bridge Magnum Mauser.
Now, here's the good news. Sarco has obtained a huge supply of new, modern Mauser M98's from Dumoulin. Cost: $295.00/each complete.
http://http://www.e-sarcoinc.com/du...&utm_campaign=Labor+Day+2014&utm_medium=email
The cost to build on a Mauser is no more expensive than building on another modern commercial action since all of the processes to 'accurize' it are the same, at least in my book. If a gunsmith quotes you a significantly higher price, find a new gunsmith. I apprenticed for 3 years with one of the masters of the Mauser actions learning everything I could including how to make custom Mauser actions from blocks of 8620 steel.
All hunter style actions flex due to the amount of material removed from the action body. That's why we employ the pillar bedding process in order to minimize the flex. If you don't want to play with that, you can use a barrel block in the stock and free-float the action so the impact of the flex is mostly eliminated.
There are very few limitations that you can place on a good condition Mausers which have been inspected carefully and thoroughly. Those that try to apply limits need to do some serious research on the British fine African rifles. Bear in mind that I'm referring to reasonable applications in order to keep the masses from tearing me to pieces. Magnum cartridges fall into that reasonable category. Literally thousands of Mausers have been used for belted magnums as well as some of the beltless magnums.
It takes some finesse and more than casual knowledge of Mausers to make them smoother than what you get from the factory or the older production runs. But it's not impossible to create a fine, smooth action with a very light trigger if you know how. It's even easier when you can make the actions for yourself...
I would look at the Sarco/Dumoulin actions or find a used FN 'improved' action (solid side wall, etc.) post 1957 and use the best barrel you can afford, preferably a Bartlein. Triggers are easy just stay away from Hubers. Good stocks in wood or synthetic can be gotten from several sources but remember to check into how much a type or brand flexes. Be sure to have the barreled action pillar bedded.
Enjoy the process of searching and selection!
Regards.
There are modern M98 Mauser actions being made:
Reimer Johannsen GmbH
Gottfried Prechtle
But the drawback is the price, usually in excess of $3,000/each standard length.
Granite Mountain makes variations on all sizes of the M98 including the double square bridge Magnum Mauser.
Now, here's the good news. Sarco has obtained a huge supply of new, modern Mauser M98's from Dumoulin. Cost: $295.00/each complete.
http://http://www.e-sarcoinc.com/du...&utm_campaign=Labor+Day+2014&utm_medium=email
The cost to build on a Mauser is no more expensive than building on another modern commercial action since all of the processes to 'accurize' it are the same, at least in my book. If a gunsmith quotes you a significantly higher price, find a new gunsmith. I apprenticed for 3 years with one of the masters of the Mauser actions learning everything I could including how to make custom Mauser actions from blocks of 8620 steel.
All hunter style actions flex due to the amount of material removed from the action body. That's why we employ the pillar bedding process in order to minimize the flex. If you don't want to play with that, you can use a barrel block in the stock and free-float the action so the impact of the flex is mostly eliminated.
There are very few limitations that you can place on a good condition Mausers which have been inspected carefully and thoroughly. Those that try to apply limits need to do some serious research on the British fine African rifles. Bear in mind that I'm referring to reasonable applications in order to keep the masses from tearing me to pieces. Magnum cartridges fall into that reasonable category. Literally thousands of Mausers have been used for belted magnums as well as some of the beltless magnums.
It takes some finesse and more than casual knowledge of Mausers to make them smoother than what you get from the factory or the older production runs. But it's not impossible to create a fine, smooth action with a very light trigger if you know how. It's even easier when you can make the actions for yourself...
I would look at the Sarco/Dumoulin actions or find a used FN 'improved' action (solid side wall, etc.) post 1957 and use the best barrel you can afford, preferably a Bartlein. Triggers are easy just stay away from Hubers. Good stocks in wood or synthetic can be gotten from several sources but remember to check into how much a type or brand flexes. Be sure to have the barreled action pillar bedded.
Enjoy the process of searching and selection!
Regards.
MudRunner2005
Well-Known Member
Yall forgot the most common modern adaptation on the Mauser K98....The Ruger 77 actions.
