List importance and prioritze reloading procedures

[squeeeeze]

Been reloading for a couple years now and getting more and more serious about consistency and accuracy on paper. During load development or shooting sessions I'll sometimes have a flier and trying to determine most probable causes. I may have a .015-.25 moa 3 shot group out of 4 or 5 with a 1"+ flier sometimes. I shoot slow, deliberate, and not more than 4-5 shots in a row and wait for barrel to cool between strings.

I am a pretty good shot with repeatable techniques and usually know when I pull a shot or not. I'll bring an accurate and consistent rifle with me to double check and make sure it's not me when having troubles.

I am trying to determine just what all practices make the biggest differences and what is actually necessary for me to gain 1/4" - 1/8" or better moa for non competition as of now. I would like people to prioritize steps and amount of accuracy they may make and explain. Obviously consistency in reloading is key. I haven't started weighing cases yet but am going to start, I don't crimp, I've only full length sized as of now but just got a neck sizing RCBS die for my .243 and will start with fire formed cases to see if that helps.

Just got a .260Rem Savage LRH, Redding S series 3 Die set with neck sizer, Fed. match primers, Lapua brass, H4350, 140grn Amax's and want to make it as accurate as possible and try to squeeze more accuracy out of my custom 7Wsm as well.

Maybe an example would be
1. consistent COAL to ogive- 5%
2. weighing cases and sort/discard accordingly- 10%
3. fire formed cases and neck sizing only- 5%
4. competition dies- 4%
5. match primers- 3%
6. trim cases- 2%
7. neck tension- 7%

IDK, just trying to figure out best practices and what I may be doing/not doing that will help with my reloading to gain accuracy and help eliminate possible fliers for my best accuracy.

 

[ohiohunter]

Neck tension is going to be one of the top, if not the top, factor that you can control.

 

[AZShooter]

Can't go with any percentage per procedure. All procedures should be a good as you can do them.
I will share with you as many tips as I can remember which could help your rifle shoot better.

1. consistent COAL to ogive- Good seating die with seater cup that fits should help
2. weighing cases and sort/discard accordingly- I have never done this with my sporter rifles yet accuracy is excellent. It should help.

3. fire formed cases and neck sizing only- you will give up ease of chambering. For bench shooting it is fine, for field not so good. Better is a fitted, partial FL or body bump along with proper neck sized case

4. competition dies- good dies yield good results with minimal runout of seated bullets
5. match primers- I use them when I can find them, to be honest I never compared them to non match primers.
6. trim cases- if all cases are same length don't trim
7. neck tension-big one! FYI that RCBS neck sizer is a fixed dimension die with sizer ball. Only way to alter the tension is to turn the necks for thinner case wall. Better off getting a real neck sizer with the ability to use a bushing for the tension you desire.

Seating depth was never mentioned. It often pays to find out where the bullet should be seated. I have often seated from into rifling to seating off the lands in .005" increments for as many at 6 or more depths to see which worked best.

Once seating depth was determined then tweak powder charge slightly up and down for further comparisons.

I feel it is the total of all the parts that makes good ammunition accurate.

other things:

Neck turning might help make neck tension more consistent within reason. Skim turning would make tension more consistent. Serious removal of brass for a tight chamber only.

Uniforming the primer pockets

deburring the flash hole (if present)

Use of a concentricity gauge can be useful to KNOW the ammo has minimal runout.

------------------------------------

Then there are the details that might help that are rifle related:

I am a firm believer in torqueing action screws to a specific value.
good crown
bedded action
clean bore

all parts of rifle fit stock properly:

trigger should not touch guard
bolt should not touch stock
magazine should not bind in stock
sides of action screws should not touch stock
Action screws must not bottom out
Front scope screw must not be too long as to touch threads of barrel
lapped scope rings with proper torque

 

[Darkker]

People that weigh cases always make me laugh.
Weighing cases tells you how heavy they are, nothing more. If you want uber consistency, segregate by case volume. Volume affects burn rates. And speaking of that, stop weighing powder if you want top consistency. Extruded powder has it's burning rate controlled by geometry. So loading by volume will not only consistently fill the case the same, which keeps that variable from changing BR; but also account for faster/slower powder burn rates due to a moving Bulk Density of the powder.

 

[Cuz]

Annealing brass every 2-3 firings will also help keep a consistant neck tension.

 

[roninflag]

been reloading since 1970. load for 27 different cartridges. a krieger barrel on a remington action 87%. shooting in f-class competition . 10%.

 

[Snaketzu]

What is really maddening is when you start wondering if it's a mechanical issue on the rifle instead of the load.

Seriously though, you are moving in the right direction. If you are going to neck size only, then the neck tension on the bullet becomes an issue, as has been mentioned. The reason why is that you are now sizing the exterior of the neck instead of the interior. This transfers any variation of neck wall thickness directly into a variation of neck tension.
Obviously, this is unwanted. Also important is that in addition to consistent ignition on a vibrational frequency the rifle likes, we also want to get the bullet started down the barrel straight. It's entirely possible to shoot a bullet down a bore one degree or more out of true. Such a bullet will wobble, for lack of a better word, for at least some distance before it stabilizes, if it ever does. A bullet that wobbles doesn't achieve its rated BC and will suffer more drop and drift, putting it out of the group.
There is one solution to this problem: controlling neck wall thickness.
I have a system I have built to check new cases for neck runout. I size the necks down, expand them with a Sinclair neck die and mandrel, and then spin the necks on a matching neck turning mandrel on a jig that holds a dial indicator. ANY thing with .001" or less runout is a good case. Anything at .0015" is decent for hunting loads, assuming you aren't varmiting at extended ranges. Anything over .0015" runout is junk. Any variations in neck wall thickness are repeated and magnified further down the case, which makes for volumetric differences as well as cases that warp after repeated loadings. Cases with large variations aren't worth your effort.
If you really want to get picky you can then turn your case necks on your best batch of cases by .0005" to clean them up. Usually only done by bench rest and 1000yd maniacs like me.
Once you have sorted the brass by neck runout, you can full length size them, uniform the primer pockets, deburr the flash holes, and trim to length. Since you have now removed as much variation from the cases as is possible, you can now sort them into batches by weight and expect it to mean something.
Your sorted cases are now ready for fireforming, and once that is done you can start developing loads with cases that fit your chamber perfectly and hold the bullet straight and concentric with the bore.
Please note that such loads are unsuitable for any other rifle but the one they are made for.
Neck tension for any magazine fed rounds should be .002" smaller than bullet diameter, minimum. Don't go over .004" or accuracy will suffer.

 

[roninflag]

260 what scope. 7wsm what kind ?

 

[jmcarrol]

Bump for later

 

[squeeeeze]

Ok great info and advice guys!

It seems neck tension is at the top of the list, something that may not be cutting it with full length std RCBS dies, and no neck turning or measureing wall thickness. With my new setup I should have consistent neck tension with the Lapua brass and Redding S dies, .002 neck tension.

I'll look into bullet concentricity for minimal runout, and annealing brass as well. Neither of which I do currently.


I do measure every time and trim brass to all the same length, debur flashholes, uniform primer pockets, just got a Bullet comparator so I'll be able to measure to the Ogive instead of guessing with inconsistent COAL's with the hollow points and ballistic tips, and get VLD seating plugs.

Obviously the rifle itself does have a huge impact. Of course Glass bedded, free floating barrel with nothing touching, proper torqueing of action screws etc...

This should get me started to being more consistent and keep learning as I go.

Thanks for all the information, a lot to digest but very informative!

 

[dkhunt14]

Accurate rifle bedded right and a good barrel
Turned brass in a tight neck. Concentricity
Annealing
Neck tension
Bullet in conjunction with placement to lands
Power weighing and type. Have seen .004 change at 1000
Cartridge, some are just more accurate and easy to tune. A case that gets full of powder
Throating or freebore
Good Bullets

Not necessarily in the right order but all are important. Matt​

 

[roninflag]

for me rifle color -red 100% ........... Kenny shoots the 7rsaum very close to what you shoot. whatever he does is the correct priority........... .... F-Open Champ K. Adams & 7mm RSAUM within AccurateShooter.com

 

[brentc]

What I don't understand is people recommending a bushing die without neck turning. With a bushing die you're sizing the outside of the neck, therefore any imperfections in neck thickness transfers to the inside diameter of the neck creating uneven pressure on the bullet. I choose to have a nice round hole to seat my bullet into.

I've seen drastic differences in the things that matter when tuning seating depth, powder charge, and selecting the right primer. A well tuned load will overcome a pretty good amount of runout, and neck tension imperfection.

 

[FearNoWind]

I too am not a believer in weighing cases. Additionally, the volume of any given case will vary over time. When that round is fired it leaves residue inside the case. Residue that you can NEVER entirely remove. The case volume therefore changes from one firing to another so if you're focused on case volume you're chasing your tail; IMO.
I use the best materials I can find/afford. My first priority is a clean, full sized case. No matter who made it, the neck wall thickness is not going to be consistent. So I turn the necks - that makes for better control of neck tension. I full length resize but remove the neck sizing ball (if any) from the die. I use a bushing neck sizing die and follow up with a neck sizing mandrel to iron out the necks and strive for a neck tension of .001. If I'm in the mood to be really anal, I sort the bullets. Bullet OAL maeausrements can vary a lot