Light rifles, big cartridges, and scope mounts - learned my lesson, now it's time to pass it on.

codyadams

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Learn and keep an open mind? There’s is no new information being shared here. Nothing new to me about bedding scope rings or how to pin a base or drill and tap for bigger screws. Even using 2 sets of rings is an old practice by those who actually think it helps. This is all ancient knowledge in large magnum rifle world.

I just picked up a BAT HR Lapua action for my next build. Takes a lot of variables out of the equation with an integral rail. Had Defiance Deviant Tactical Lapua as well and is a pretty good action with integral rail. Not as nice as the BAT tho. Have a Kelby Atlas Lapua action with screwed and pinned base that also works perfectly fine. It’s all in the procedure. I always tell people you can have the best rings and bases money can buy but they won’t do their job very well if not installed correctly.

Ive seen the Allen magnums and no offense to Mr. Allen but there’s nothing cutting edge there. Just more wildcats in the pile. It’s all fun but nothing special. I have wildcatted many of my own original designs as have tons of other people over the last 70 years.
Reguardless of if his wildcat cartridges are "cutting edge" or not, he is still a very knowledgeable rifle builder that has a very successful business, because of the level of quality he produces. Far different from making a few original designs. However, that is neither here nor there. Your comment about using a different compound for bedding the rings is something I will look in to, better grip is always a good thing for this, and I want the best I can get, and changing the ring bedding compound was not something I had considered.
 

LeddSlinger

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Reguardless of if his wildcat cartridges are "cutting edge" or not, he is still a very knowledgeable rifle builder that has a very successful business, because of the level of quality he produces. Far different from making a few original designs. However, that is neither here nor there. Your comment about using a different compound for bedding the rings is something I will look in to, better grip is always a good thing for this, and I want the best I can get, and changing the ring bedding compound was not something I had considered.
Yeah I’m not trying to disrespect Mr. Allen in any way. I’m sure he is an excellent smith and very knowledgeable rifleman. I just don’t know him personally nor have I handled his work so I can only take the input lightly. I agree that there are definitely better mounts than the DNZ for heavy recoiling magnum rifles. I have been studying and testing various scope mounts, epoxy compounds and different mounting procedures extensively for a long time now. The same thing that happened to you happened to me on a scope many years ago and I set out in a quest to ensure that never happened again.

Below is a short video I put together a while back where about checking scope ring alignment and another 4 part video where I compare the rigidity and straightness of one piece mounts vs. two piece mounts using my custom machined alignment bars and a dual rail scope tester mount with .001” dial indicators to show how much each type flexes when external force is applied. Worth a watch when you have the time.

Scope Ring Alignment


Part 1: One piece vs. Two piece


Part 2: One piece vs. Two piece


Part 3: One piece vs. Two piece


Part 4: One piece vs. Two piece
 

HARPERC

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Spokane, WA
Learn and keep an open mind? There’s is no new information being shared here. Nothing new to me about bedding scope rings or how to pin a base or drill and tap for bigger screws. Even using 2 sets of rings is an old practice by those who actually think it helps. This is all ancient knowledge in large magnum rifle world.
I would have to say maybe no new information for you, but I'm gleaning bits of information I did not know before. Including your videos.

It may be ancient knowledge for some, but it's been a good discussion for me. I'm in the process of deciding how to mount a scope on a new build, and I am thankful Cody put it out there.
 

Its204fast

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May 20, 2020
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North Carolina
WOW I have learned a bunch reading this post.

I Use DNZ on my .204 Ruger and 7mmRM and absolutely love them. I love the single piece look. I am of the belief that the less parts you have the less parts that can break (single piece vs base, ring setup.) but I don't own anything with that type of recoil.

years ago a friend had a savage model 110 7mag he bought from a friend, it had a barska scope and some cheapo rings and bases on it.
He killed several deer under 200 yds with it over the years and one of the last things he did with it (before it got stolen) was shoot at a range with a friend... he was bragging about hiting a 36"x36" target at 300 yds with it. He left it with me to keep in my safe and told me to shoot it. I bought a box of hornady bullets took it to my personal range on the family farm and it grouped like a shotgun. I put it in my vise thinking i was the problem same results... I got to looking and the rings had been tightened to the base so much it broke the bottom of the ring where it clamps to the base. I advised him of the problem and told him to get the DNZ mounts and he would have a better shooting gun. Not long after that he picked his gun up from me and kept it in his house which got broken into and he had several guns and TV's stolen.

I'd love to have a march scope, I have a friend who has an 80x March on his AIR RIFLE.....No I'm not joking.
 

codyadams

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Southwest Wyoming
Yeah I’m not trying to disrespect Mr. Allen in any way. I’m sure he is an excellent smith and very knowledgeable rifleman. I just don’t know him personally nor have I handled his work so I can only take the input lightly. I agree that there are definitely better mounts than the DNZ for heavy recoiling magnum rifles. I have been studying and testing various scope mounts, epoxy compounds and different mounting procedures extensively for a long time now. The same thing that happened to you happened to me on a scope many years ago and I set out in a quest to ensure that never happened again.

Below is a short video I put together a while back where about checking scope ring alignment and another 4 part video where I compare the rigidity and straightness of one piece mounts vs. two piece mounts using my custom machined alignment bars and a dual rail scope tester mount with .001” dial indicators to show how much each type flexes when external force is applied. Worth a watch when you have the time.

Scope Ring Alignment


Part 1: One piece vs. Two piece


Part 2: One piece vs. Two piece


Part 3: One piece vs. Two piece


Part 4: One piece vs. Two piece
I will certainly give those a watch, thank you for taking the time and resources to make them sir
 

LeddSlinger

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Montana
Great info Leddslinger,now i want to change out my NF two pcs,too the one pcs.heh:D On my pack 338 NM
Thanks. Tho if you haven’t had an issue then there’s no reason to change. But a one piece is stronger no doubt.

I will use two piece mounts when I’m counting ounces in pack rifles. My favorite two piece ring is Seekins. Top notch quality and strength with large T25 8-40 screws. The biggest key to the Seekins design is the dual screw base clamp. That’s where the weak point is on a ring and most manufacturers only use one measly bolt to attach to a rail. They also have good thick structural metal on the bottom half of their rings.

Seekins makes the Vortex ‘Precision’ rings, and I believe they also make the Vortex ‘Pro’ series rings but not totally sure on the Pro model yet. Both of those models seem to have the same quality Seekins is known for, tho I would wager the more affordable Vortex Pro series uses a lesser grade of aluminum than the Precision series or actual Seekins rings
 
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300whisper

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Seekins makes the Vortex ‘Precision’ rings, and I believe they also make the Vortex ‘Pro’ series rings but not totally sure on the Pro model yet. Both of those models seem to have the same quality Seekins is known for, tho I would wager the more affordable Vortex Pro series uses a lesser grade of aluminum than the Precision series or actual Seekins rings

They do. I purchased Seekins rings from Seekins and they had the vortex stamp on the top when I opened the box. 🤣
 

Lenny Foffa

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Mar 6, 2017
Messages
429
I have used 2 piece Leupold Rings and Bases ,including the Dual Dove Tail rings and bases, with no issues , just yet. I expected to have issues with the the Weatherby Ultralight in .270 Win. The recoil on that light rifle is sharp!! I shoot about 100 rounds prior to the deer hunt, every year. No problems with scope moving , or screws getting loose just yet. I check each screw in the rings prior to the beginning of the range sessions in October . All screws and holes are cleaned with "choke and carb cleaner ", then torqued to factory specs plus a tiny bit more, with Lock Tight . I take the time to make sure the ring's are aligned and parallel . I use the Wheeler scope mounting kit, with the 1 inch and 30mm bars to assure alignment , and torque limiting screw driver. The most impressive base I had ever seen , for a Magnum Safari Rifle, was a custom one piece Steel base, like your 4 hole base , but welded to the 98 Mauser Action, the blended and polished so it looked like it was machined as part of the action, no seams , then rust blued. Not only was the base incredibly strong, it was beautiful.
 

cabelasken

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Feb 22, 2021
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Nevada
I once sent a rifle to a custom shop to have a new barrel installed as that year I missed two easy shots to fill my freezer with venison. This 284 winchester had over 5000 rounds thru it and the factory barrel accuracy was stellar. I once loaded 10 different loads with bullet weights from 139 Gr to 160 with 3 or 4 different powders and the 10 shot group was 1.50" . With loads it liked, 5 shot .375 MOA were common. When I sent the rifle off groups had grown to 1.25" and larger. Anyhow, after a few months at the shop, I got a call from the owner that the rifle was being sent back to me all done, but he added a comment " did you know that your scope mounts were loose?" I was dumbfounded - I repled that I had loctited them down 15 years prior.
 

[email protected]

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Jul 24, 2003
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134
Location
Alberta
A little dusting in the clean rings will hold any scope with normal torqued screws.
Even a unbraked 500 a Square
 

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Wedgy

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