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Leica crf 1600 here! (short review)
- Thread starter aroshtr
- Start date
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I for one was very disappointed that the 1600 did not give True ballistic range also. So I just went an bought the 1200. Even though I am not shooting much over 800 I wanted the True range feature to help with the steep angles I deal with. The ranch I guide on for deer and elk has some terrific angles and as much as 70 degrees is pretty common. I ordered a Slope Doper with hopes that it will be a benefit. I figure I can do the cosine times the yardage in my head without too much trouble. Anyone have any experience with the Slope Doper? Whaterver the outcome it has to be better than the Bushnell 800 I had. I been putting the Leica 1200 thru the paces on the mountain this last two weeks and I have been impressed to say the least! Trees, hillsides, rocks and just a plain grass hillside out to 1340 have been common. Oh well time will tell.
XWrangler
XWrangler
pyroducksx3
Well-Known Member
The reason why these units dont have true ballistic range is because its a useless feature unless you have a ballistic program that can figure out the swag for your specific load ie, velocity, bc, atmospheric conditions, angle, etc... No range finder just given range and angle and using a ballistic curve could give you an accurate true ballistic range, its a gimmick
crypto666
Member
Well, i am a little miffed. i didn't do much research before selling my crf-1200 and ordering the 1600. With fresh batteries in the 1200 i could max it out at ~1430 yards. I assumed the 1600 would have no problem with 1800, but it looks like they are using the same diode and probably just upped the current a bit. And now it seems the ballistics info is a waste; who shoots less than 500 yards anyways, and why would you need a computer to tell you where to aim? That's pretty close to point blank for most rifles.
I guess i have a couple months to think about it before i actually get it.
The only thing that will make it worth the money is if it will get out to 1600 without trouble, 1800 would be a nice bonus.
I guess i have a couple months to think about it before i actually get it.
The only thing that will make it worth the money is if it will get out to 1600 without trouble, 1800 would be a nice bonus.
This has been a great string of information which naturally only promps more questions from my perspective.
I sold a Leica 900 awaiting the 1600 for several reasons. I actually called Cabelas and asked about the ranging feature and was assured that the ranging mode could be switched from the ballistics calculator mode to the corrected distance mode but apparently, they didn't know what they were talking about. Setting that issue aside, I also sold a Kestrel 3500 weather meter because it didn't have the "density altitude" feature which I have found is essential for determining the effective altitude (actual altitude corrected by barametric pressure changes) which is what my ballistics are based on. If I am hearing the discussions correctly, the new 1600 will give me temp and pressure. Is this pressure figure all I need to plug into a ballistics program to give me the effective altitude or do I still need to know the actual altitude too?
Please help. Thanks. Havingfun
I sold a Leica 900 awaiting the 1600 for several reasons. I actually called Cabelas and asked about the ranging feature and was assured that the ranging mode could be switched from the ballistics calculator mode to the corrected distance mode but apparently, they didn't know what they were talking about. Setting that issue aside, I also sold a Kestrel 3500 weather meter because it didn't have the "density altitude" feature which I have found is essential for determining the effective altitude (actual altitude corrected by barametric pressure changes) which is what my ballistics are based on. If I am hearing the discussions correctly, the new 1600 will give me temp and pressure. Is this pressure figure all I need to plug into a ballistics program to give me the effective altitude or do I still need to know the actual altitude too?
Please help. Thanks. Havingfun
Ultramag45
Well-Known Member
I just returned from the high Country of Wyoming where I used my Leica 1600 a bunch....It worked very well... often ranging trees and rocks over 2000 yards...i ranged elk and deer out to 1700 pretty easy...I shot a nice buck at about 637yards.. at about 17 dgree angle... It all happened very quickly I re ranged it with my Leupold Rx 1000 TBR and said the same but shoot like 618yards...wouldnt of had time with an ACI.. he stopped on the edge of the timber 2 steps and he would have been gone..all in all the leica is amazing but the ballistic stuff is a waste.... a total bummer that they dont have an inclinometer in it.... I have ran the numbers many times angles and cosign times yardage and get the same just about every time with the Leupold....The inclinometer isnt a gimmic....When Leica can do that then they will have it all.....Ill try and post some pics up this week.....gun)
crypto666
Member
a total bummer that they dont have an inclinometer in it.... I have ran the numbers many times angles and cosign times yardage and get the same just about every time with the Leupold....The inclinometer isnt a gimmic....When Leica can do that then they will have it all.....Ill try and post some pics up this week.....gun)
I am glad to hear you are happy with it and ranges you are getting; it makes me feel better about selling my 1200.
Umm, but the OP said it does display angle, and on Leica's website "barometric pressure, angle of incline and temperature display"
It is the units used in the pressure reading I am wondering about; I saw somewhere it is possibly PSI?
bigngreen
Well-Known Member
Down load the instructions. Leica Camera AG - Sport Optics - CRF 1600
crypto666
Member
This has been a great string of information which naturally only promps more questions from my perspective.
I also sold a Kestrel 3500 weather meter because it didn't have the "density altitude" feature which I have found is essential for determining the effective altitude (actual altitude corrected by barametric pressure changes) which is what my ballistics are based on. If I am hearing the discussions correctly, the new 1600 will give me temp and pressure. Is this pressure figure all I need to plug into a ballistics program to give me the effective altitude or do I still need to know the actual altitude too?
Please help. Thanks. Havingfun
I do not believe density alttitude is necassary. That is more of an aviation thing where you want to know how an aircraft is going to behave given the temp/pressure. A hot day at 6500 feet may be the equivelant of a cool day at 7500 feet. It is describing the density of the air.
One ballistics calc I use (JBM) asks for pressure and alttitude, but I think it is only using pressure for the solution and I assume that if a value isn't given for pressure, then it falls back on alltitude to define that variable. I use the altitude variable in estimating the change in pressure/density when there is a change in alttitude so I know where I am hitting when I move from 5500 ft. up to 8500 ft. ASL. Otherwise I just always give actual pressure as read from my kestral; which may or may not be right but is close enough. So a actual pressure reading is all I would want from a RF; altitude is meaningless.
It doesn't matter how high you are, what matters is how dense the air is.
It is the units used in the pressure reading I am wondering about; I saw somewhere it is possibly PSI?
Same question I have. The unit is advertised to provide an atmospheric pressure reading. Is that atmospheric pressure value provided in 'Inches Hg' or 'psi'? Anyone using one of these 1600's able to clear this up for us?
crypto666
Member
Down load the instructions. Leica Camera AG - Sport Optics - CRF 1600
I was just reading it, it looks like holdover is displayed in inches (Eng units). That is wonderful, I always wanted to know how many inches or centimeters 7.6 mils or 26.1 MOA is......Sheesh, I wish these guys would have referred to some quality scopes in deciding what units of holdover to use. I love leica, but come on!
I found no mention of english pressure units or the metric ones which from what I have read are milllibars/Hg???? Anyone figure this out yet?
Same question I have. The unit is advertised to provide an atmospheric pressure reading. Is that atmospheric pressure value provided in 'Inches Hg' or 'psi'? Anyone using one of these 1600's able to clear this up for us?
I found it in the Leica Instructions:
"The LEICA RANGEMASTER CRF 1600 can be set to metric units or the Imperial units more commonly used in the USA, i.e. either meters/Celsius/millibars or Yards/Fahrenheit/PSI (pounds per square inch) for distance/temperature/atmospheric pressure respectively."
Looks like it is PSI. I don't know which part of the USA units of PSI for atmospheric pressure is "commonly used in the USA" for barometric or atmospheric pressure. I've never seen it commonly used where I've live anywhere on the nightly news or in any weather forecasts. So for that unit of atmospheric pressure to be useful for me, I'll have to convert it to 'Inches Hg' (mercury) or 'millibars'.
That's a shame. This is the first item I've read of where Leica may have missed the mark.
bigngreen
Well-Known Member
It would seem that the Leica 1600 is really only good for two things, a good range and a incline/decline and that's about the end of it. I wouldn't leave my Kestrel at home or my PPC with Loadbase 3.0 and Exbal! It is still a great looking deal just for the range!
crypto666
Member
FYI: 1 pound/square inch = 2.036 020 657 6 inch of mercury [0 °C]
1 pound/square inch = 68.947 572 8 millibar
13 pound/square inch = 26.468 268 549 inch of mercury [0 °C]
We can probably get by with multiplying the psi number by 2 to get in/Hg. It is probably close enough for most of us. Although I know there will be that one guy who says that a few 1/10 in/Hg was enough to miss the biggest bull in the world and ultimately lead to the divorce and his subsequent arrest..
I love Leica products, but I hope they never build an airplane. It would probably fly real nice, but navigation would be a bitch with a airspeed indicator in furlongs/per hour and an altimeter reading in yoctometers (yes, that is a real unit of length, 1 foot=3.048 x (10^23)).
1 pound/square inch = 68.947 572 8 millibar
13 pound/square inch = 26.468 268 549 inch of mercury [0 °C]
We can probably get by with multiplying the psi number by 2 to get in/Hg. It is probably close enough for most of us. Although I know there will be that one guy who says that a few 1/10 in/Hg was enough to miss the biggest bull in the world and ultimately lead to the divorce and his subsequent arrest..
I love Leica products, but I hope they never build an airplane. It would probably fly real nice, but navigation would be a bitch with a airspeed indicator in furlongs/per hour and an altimeter reading in yoctometers (yes, that is a real unit of length, 1 foot=3.048 x (10^23)).
