Lead on Redding neck sizer bushings

[SidecarFlip]

I'm finding that the lead (chamfer) on redding sizer bushings is a bit too abrupt to allow an easy neck size on 300 WM brass. To that end, I'm machining my own bushings from spherodized oil hardening drill rod and increasing the lead in to allow easier sizing. Seems to wok just fine (you can actually 'feel' the difference) when you size plus the necks come out within 0.002 or less, in concentricity, consistently.

Opinions?

Using Whidden custom machined dies btw, checking concentricity on a Sinclair case jig and insertion (projectile concentricity) on a PT&G (Hornady) jig.

 

[Timber338]

I had the same problem a while back on a 338 win mag that I used to own. The leading edge of the bushing would scrape off a good amount of brass as it resized the neck. I called Redding about it and they said that was not normal, but also would not replace it. I never took the time to really figure out the problem as I was phasing out that rifle at that point.

I use bushings on all of the other cases I resize and I have not had the problem again to that extent, but I also wouldn't mind a radius on the leading edge. When I clean the bushing off after each batch of brass that I resize there is always a brass residue on the cleaning cloth from material that is removed from the neck. I wonder if a better radius would help prevent that. I would be curious if you see any brass residue on your custom bushing after you resize a dozen or so cases.

 

[barefooter56]

I'm finding that the lead (chamfer) on redding sizer bushings is a bit too abrupt to allow an easy neck size on 300 WM brass. To that end, I'm machining my own bushings from spherodized oil hardening drill rod and increasing the lead in to allow easier sizing. Seems to wok just fine (you can actually 'feel' the difference) when you size plus the necks come out within 0.002 or less, in concentricity, consistently.

Opinions?

Using Whidden custom machined dies btw, checking concentricity on a Sinclair case jig and insertion (projectile concentricity) on a PT&G (Hornady) jig.

SidecarFlip,
If it works, it works. L.E. Wilson bushings already have the taper and will work in Redding dies with no issues. You do figure bushing size a little differently that with Redding bushings. With a Wilson bushing , .003 under the measurement across the neck of a loaded round will give .002 neck tension. .004 gives .003 neck tension and so on.

 

[SidecarFlip]

I get no brass residue on my bushings at all. I used a 60 degree chatterless countersink to make the lead and ran it in about 45 thousands (or until it looked good) or about twice as much lead as the Redding bushings. Using an RCBS Rockchucker, I can 'feel' the difference between my busining and the Redding bushings.

I just parted out 50 blanks from drill rod. They have to be bored to size, cased and honed.

Nice thing about making you own is I can bore and hone them to 5 tenths, whereas the commercial bushings are all in 0.001 increments.

I like the Whidden dies alot. I have 2 sets of custom ground, one in 300 WSM and one in 308 Winchester, not cheap and a bit of wait time but fas as I can see, worth the expense. I sent Whidden fired cases (3) from each rifle. Took almost 2 months to get them. Pretty impressed with that. I also notice that the expander ball in the dies runs concentric with the bore at all times (unlike most factory mass produced dies where you have to play with the adjustments to get concentricity. Plus the bodies are short so bumping a shoulder is no issue, in fact, you have to be real careful setting the dies or your shoulders will go too far back (more than 0.002-3).

Sizing on the dies, I'm consistently getting 0.002 concentricity and seating with an RCBS front load seater die, they stay at 0.002. I'm getting kind of finiky about runout so I run each loaded round through the PT&G comparator and use the alignment screw to run them down to 0.001 or better.

BTW, using Lapua brass in the 308 and Norma in the 300WM. No issues with neck thickness at all. Loading Berger VLD hunting pills with IMR propellant. It's more of building a tight grouping load for both rifles but the dies are apparently up to the task.

I was curious about the redding bushings and if anyone else was experiencing issues. They ain't cheap, but then, nothing is today.

 

[SidecarFlip]

SidecarFlip,
If it works, it works. L.E. Wilson bushings already have the taper and will work in Redding dies with no issues. You do figure bushing size a little differently that with Redding bushings. With a Wilson bushing , .003 under the measurement across the neck of a loaded round will give .002 neck tension. .004 gives .003 neck tension and so on.

What I did was the edge of the bench test. I need the pills to stay put because both rifles are hunting rifles, not bench rifles so the rounds will be subject to jostling in pockets and some banging around. I'm setting the resistance so you cannot readily push the pill into the case using the edge of the bench.

Been looking carefully at the Meplats and I see a Whidden pointing die in the near future.....

Now, I need to get a baseline load for a 338 Lapua. Nothing listed in the Berger manual at all. Thinking I'll use a start load of 95 grains of H1000 with a 300 grain Berger seated as far out as the mag will allow.... Why I cut the bushing blanks. I need to machine a set for the 338.

 

[SidecarFlip]

...Maybe I should swing through Newaygo on my way up north sometime and see if Brian is around......

 

[barefooter56]

What I did was the edge of the bench test. I need the pills to stay put because both rifles are hunting rifles, not bench rifles so the rounds will be subject to jostling in pockets and some banging around. I'm setting the resistance so you cannot readily push the pill into the case using the edge of the bench.

Been looking carefully at the Meplats and I see a Whidden pointing die in the near future.....

Now, I need to get a baseline load for a 338 Lapua. Nothing listed in the Berger manual at all. Thinking I'll use a start load of 95 grains of H1000 with a 300 grain Berger seated as far out as the mag will allow.... Why I cut the bushing blanks. I need to machine a set for the 338.

SidecarFlip,
Be careful with the meplat deal. It really only shows results at ranges of 600 yards or more. Also it will lower the BC of the bullet unless you point the bullet back up. Pointing the bullet up closes the nose so much the bullet may not perform on game as it should. Bad juju for hunting. OK for target.

 

[Trickymissfit]

I'm finding that the lead (chamfer) on redding sizer bushings is a bit too abrupt to allow an easy neck size on 300 WM brass. To that end, I'm machining my own bushings from spherodized oil hardening drill rod and increasing the lead in to allow easier sizing. Seems to wok just fine (you can actually 'feel' the difference) when you size plus the necks come out within 0.002 or less, in concentricity, consistently.

Opinions?

Using Whidden custom machined dies btw, checking concentricity on a Sinclair case jig and insertion (projectile concentricity) on a PT&G (Hornady) jig.

somewhere in my junk, I have a cigar box full of bushings and heat treated blanks. I used A2, D2, and S7. I pretty much cut them to within .0025", and then hardened them. Then honed them to size (three steps with a very fine micro on the last step). When done I polished a .015" radius that was cut in the soft state. I learned a few things doing this, and also saw a failure in die construction as well.

The bushing must float in the counter bore of the die body, as we already know. The first half dozen bushings I made were only honed and polished, and I left the end surfaces alone other than a light polishing. WRONG! I was getting about .0025"/.0035" of runout TIR. I was baffled, and decided there was not enough clearance on the O.D. NOPE! It was the ends of the bushing! I rigged up an arbor with an expanding sleeve, and dusted one end on a B&S #13. They were out of square about .0015". That got it down to about .00175" TIR. After looking at the cap, and the top of the die body, I noticed that the cap wasn't flat. I made a new cap out of 4150 steel, and made it about 25% thicker. Then nitrided it. Bang I'm now in the .0005"/.00075" range consistently.

One thing I've notice is a slight variation in O.D. diameters whether using a factory bushing or one I built. Not a lot but maybe .0002". This is probably from the bushing flexing under pressure as best as I can figure. I'd love to modify an old die to use a bushing that's about 33% thicker in the walls. Another issue I found with Redding dies anyway, was a little flex in the threads when doing some heaving case forming. Not a lot, but maybe .002" max. I think it's time for somebody to get off their duff and design a heavy duty forming die that also uses bushings.
just some thoughts Skip
gary

 

[SidecarFlip]

Gary... I'm blanking the bushings on the Servo-shift running collets and my indicators show no runout of consequence so I'm presuming the faces are square, in fact, across loads, I think 0.002 is fine for a hunting rifle. I blank them (cutoff) 0.025 over finish and take a light cut on both faces.

When I was 20, the small stuff was easier. being in my 60's now, it's a chore'''frigg'in tiny parts.

The redding bushings are stamped for size on the end and it's a heavy indentation with the resultant proud metal on every one. I'm tattoing mine on the side with a shop mini die grinder and a tungsten carbide burr.

The big issue for me was the lead which, I've eliminated.

 

[SidecarFlip]

SidecarFlip,
Be careful with the meplat deal. It really only shows results at ranges of 600 yards or more. Also it will lower the BC of the bullet unless you point the bullet back up. Pointing the bullet up closes the nose so much the bullet may not perform on game as it should. Bad juju for hunting. OK for target.

I actually compared the meplats on Bergers and Sierra's under the shop microscope and the Bergers are much more uniform, but under magnification they still look like a rugged valley...lol

I'm loading up the 300's and the 308's to use in very expensive custom built hunting rifles (at least in my perspective over 5 grand a piece is expensive...) so I want to eliminate as many varibles as possible. The 338, not so much. It's a target only rifle for the bench. Too **** heavy to carry and too long to use practically up here. I'd never consider shooting a whitetail with a 338, never.

Now, if I had a lackey.....lightbulb

 

[desertbull]

Gary... I'm blanking the bushings on the Servo-shift running collets and my indicators show no runout of consequence so I'm presuming the faces are square, in fact, across loads, I think 0.002 is fine for a hunting rifle. I blank them (cutoff) 0.025 over finish and take a light cut on both faces.

When I was 20, the small stuff was easier. being in my 60's now, it's a chore'''frigg'in tiny parts.

The redding bushings are stamped for size on the end and it's a heavy indentation with the resultant proud metal on every one. I'm tattoing mine on the side with a shop mini die grinder and a tungsten carbide burr.

The big issue for me was the lead which, I've eliminated.

How much for a .308 bushing?