Ladder testing...just a couple questions

[BountyHunter]

Not quite that simple but try it and let us know.

 

[Bigeclipse]

Not quite that simple but try it and let us know.

Haha I know its not that simple...thats why I said "in theory". The point of ladder test/ocw is determine a stable powder range which gives a similar muzzle velocity. So in theory you would think you would only need muzzle velocities and could care less how far you are shooting...etc but at least in the OCW test you could also see some group sizes and in the ladder test...as long as you shot more than just one bullet of each powder charge...you can see down range accuracy groups. These can lead to tips of which node to pick if you get more than one. Or at least thats what I have read. We shall see what happens tomorrow. Ill be doing the OCW test tomorrow. I have opted out of ladder test until i have practiced a lot more at 300 yards

 

[BountyHunter]

Ha ha OCW has never been about similar MV and as adamantly argued chrono graphs "are not needed. OCW desired accuracy level is 1 MOA.

 

[Bigeclipse]

Ha ha OCW has never been about similar MV and as adamantly argued chrono graphs "are not needed. OCW desired accuracy level is 1 MOA.

1moa is what im shooting for so works for my needs. Again...I heard OCW says you dont NEED a chronograph but if you have one use it as it provides extra data which you can use in conjunction with the OCW test to help determine best nodes If you get more than one.

I would try a ladder test but heard for novice to intermediate shooters it is not the preferred method as you are shooting at greater distances. Im trying to get a 1MOA load for hunting season next month. Maybe next year I will come back and do a ladder test.

 

[4xforfun]

Thanks for the tips. Just a quick question though...so theoretically speaking if you had a perfect chronograph you could simply shoot through the chronograph looking for when bullets have a very close muzzle velocity and then call that a node with out even aiming at anything down range? I would never do this but technically in a ladder test the bullets hitting around the same spot on the target are simply due to the fact they had a very similar MV right?

NO! What you are looking for is bullets traviling at DIFFERENT SPEEDS that cluster together. Lets say that you have 3 diferent loads....50, 50.5, 51....all going different speeds...... that cluster in a little tight group....this will be an accuracy node....a very forgiving "sweet spot" where the barrel harmonics (vibrations) are on a quiet spot and are baisicly the same. You can have a load with a very low ES with nearly IDENTICLE FPS that won't group worth a dam because the bullet is leaving the BBL while the barrel is in the middle of a vibration and the muzzle is moving (vibrating).

Now, this is an ulta simple explanation of something fairly complex.


As was mentioned earlier.....the further out you shoot the test the better. Also, USE ONE aiming dot...as small as you can to ensure that you are aiming at the EXACT SAME SPOT. I shoot mine at 750 yards....I run two tests......one up and one down in powder charge. I DO NOT look at the tests side by side to see if 50.1 hits next the the earlier tests' 50.1. I want to see if both ladders show the same "NODE". Also, coloring the bullets from the tips to JUST SHY of the ojive, and shooting on white paper, makes identifing the powder charges a snap. Bring some Q-tips and alchahol to make sure..just wet the q-tip and rub the edge of the bullet hole...you'll know. Shoot one test, go and identify the holes with a pen and go back and fire round two Also, I purposely don't hit my aim point...I usually dial 1 or 2 MOA left or right of my aim point.

Start the test with a fouled warm bore, and space your shots out , time wise, so you don't get to hot. I try and shoot ladders on calmer days, but it really doesn't matter...you are NOT looking at the horazontal on the target...strictly verticle. You are looking for clusters that group VERTICLY!!! You can have 3 shots that spread out a foot side to side that are IDENTICLE verticly..that is your node...and test two shoud prove it.

Good luck!!!

Tod

 

[Bigeclipse]

NO! What you are looking for is bullets traviling at DIFFERENT SPEEDS that cluster together. Lets say that you have 3 diferent loads....50, 50.5, 51....all going different speeds...... that cluster in a little tight group....this will be an accuracy node....a very forgiving "sweet spot" where the barrel harmonics (vibrations) are on a quiet spot and are baisicly the same. You can have a load with a very low ES with nearly IDENTICLE FPS that won't group worth a dam because the bullet is leaving the BBL while the barrel is in the middle of a vibration and the muzzle is moving (vibrating).

Now, this is an ulta simple explanation of something fairly complex.


As was mentioned earlier.....the further out you shoot the test the better. Also, USE ONE aiming dot...as small as you can to ensure that you are aiming at the EXACT SAME SPOT. I shoot mine at 750 yards....I run two tests......one up and one down in powder charge. I DO NOT look at the tests side by side to see if 50.1 hits next the the earlier tests' 50.1. I want to see if both ladders show the same "NODE". Also, coloring the bullets from the tips to JUST SHY of the ojive, and shooting on white paper, makes identifing the powder charges a snap. Bring some Q-tips and alchahol to make sure..just wet the q-tip and rub the edge of the bullet hole...you'll know. Shoot one test, go and identify the holes with a pen and go back and fire round two Also, I purposely don't hit my aim point...I usually dial 1 or 2 MOA left or right of my aim point.

Start the test with a fouled warm bore, and space your shots out , time wise, so you don't get to hot. I try and shoot ladders on calmer days, but it really doesn't matter...you are NOT looking at the horazontal on the target...strictly verticle. You are looking for clusters that group VERTICLY!!! You can have 3 shots that spread out a foot side to side that are IDENTICLE verticly..that is your node...and test two shoud prove it.

Good luck!!!

Tod

Unfortunately I have pretty much decided to go with OCW test since ladder test results can be screwed up more so than OCW tests when it comes to shooter error. Also...I am not exactly confident at 300 yards yet which is minimum distance for ladder tests. Most my shooting is done at 200 and less. The 300 yard range we have closed a lot due to mud issues. I did not realize you shouldn't look at muzzle velocity data when using OCW. I actually heard you should. I will record the data anyways and post pics tomorrow as im doing tests tonight. My goal is to get a load with this rifle that can shoot 1 MOA out to 400 yards (no I will not be shooting at deer this year at that distance...only about 250 yards so I really only need 1.5MOA haha but my plan is to have two rifles for hunting, this lightweight mountain rifle good to 400 yards and then my 300 win mag which I am building that will be good out to 600+ yards. That rifle I will certainly be spending lots of time on load work up and developing a load which is sub .5MOA (hopefully!)

 

[daniel brothers]

good stuff Guys