Ladder or OCW... what will tell me more?

[RYEWSKY25284]

Optimum Charge Weight

Thank you

 

[25WSM]

The Satterlee test only requires you to shoot through a chrono. If you can keep it in the beam your good. If you can't keep it in the beams you don't need to be shooting. And again the Satterlee and ladder test only shows you the whole node to taste in. It won't tell you the exact load that is best. You will have to shoot groups to fine tune it. There are several YouTube's on the Satterlee method. It's simple and uses 10 shots and will show you 2 nodes.
Shep

 

[Mram10us]

It is the hubris to which I was referring. It showed up right on cue.

Two aren't required, I just don't like single shot methods so I modify. Saterlee method included. I'd still argue chrono is only some of the picture. Check out Johnnys reloading bench on YouTube. He does lots of testing and includes a chrono. You will see many groups with good es and sd numbers but bad groups.

 

[25WSM]

The Satterlee method doesn't us SD to show you a node. It shows you flat spots on the velocity slope. Same as ladder test show you flat spots. The flat spots are exactly the same on both test. If example shots 3 4 5 don't show a velocity increase or a much reduced velocity climb then the same 3 4 and 5 shot will hit the same waterline on your ladder. I used to do each test at the same time by recording velocity of each shot and marking them on the ladder target at 300 yards. I found they both tell you exactly the same thing. A tuning window to start your group shooting in. All the loads that don't fit in the tune window don't have to be tried because you know they are not in the node. Out of a ten shot ladder or Satterlee test you can eliminate 6 to 7 charge weights and that saves tons of time and money.
You still will have to shoot groups to get seating depth and to find the best charge weight in your window. I find the best loads are always in the middle to the top of the node so I start there. So basically 19 shots will give you a pretty solid charge weight. That is 10 shots on either or both methods to find the tune window and 3 3shot groups to find the charge in the window that is best. I do a seating depth test with that charge weight to get the best group size and shape. Then I take that load and do a 2 tenth over and under to see if it's better. This method will get you a great tune. But at 1000 yard matches I take that best combo and do 5 rounds. I do 5 rounds 2 tenth over and under and 5 rounds 4 tenth over and under. Which ever one shoots best verticle and group shape is the one I compete with.
Shep

 

[Mram10us]

25wsm,
I understand his method is based on velocity but he references low es and sd in his method also. Point being, a chrono can be used, but is far from necessary

 

[25WSM]

Satterlee suggest that SD is better on the loads that are in the tune window and more so as you get to the higher end of the node which is exactly my observation too. All these methods are well documented and written about. YouTube vids about and so forth. They will all work if done properly. I have proven to myself that these methods work. The op ask what would work better groups at 300 or ladders at 500 and all would be chronoed. So basically for long range tuning I would start with ladders and chrono numbers to get the flat window and then go to groups to fine tune. I believe he has been given enough info from everybodies thought to come up with what he will try. If he just follows one rule he will get his own system that works for him. Be a Results driven reloaded. Always make one change at a time and follow the results. Good luck with what you eventually do. It will come together for you.
Shep

 

[Mram10us]

Satterlee suggest that SD is better on the loads that are in the tune window and more so as you get to the higher end of the node which is exactly my observation too. All these methods are well documented and written about. YouTube vids about and so forth. They will all work if done properly. I have proven to myself that these methods work. The op ask what would work better groups at 300 or ladders at 500 and all would be chronoed. So basically for long range tuning I would start with ladders and chrono numbers to get the flat window and then go to groups to fine tune. I believe he has been given enough info from everybodies thought to come up with what he will try. If he just follows one rule he will get his own system that works for him. Be a Results driven reloaded. Always make one change at a time and follow the results. Good luck with what you eventually do. It will come together for you.
Shep

Well said.

 

[25WSM]

Don't you sleep?

 

[Mram10us]

Don't you sleep?

Ha. Like most of us here, I don't sleep a whole lot. Too much to do