mwkelso
Well-Known Member
Would you mind explaining the advantages you've experienced using the ladder method over the OCW method?
I don't have a preference to either one, I'm too new in to developing loads to have any bias towards one or the other.
Ladder or OCW... what will tell me more?
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I don't have a preference to either one, I'm too new in to developing loads to have any bias towards one or the other.
25WSM
Well-Known Member
To me a ladder gives you your starting load [node] to develope around much faster with 1/3 the ammo. It also eliminates your verticle. I have found that the Satterlee method and the ladder method find the same exact nodes.
Shep
Shep
I like ladder tests because it shows you the node with less rounds fired even if you use a 2x ladder like I do. Ocw is great for shorter ranges, but if you have the distance, I prefer ladder. Creighton audette started this node thing a long time ago, and probably someone before him.
Neither is wrong, just my preference. I'm not sold on using a chrono to tell me the best load without paper. Lots of crap groups with good sd and es
25WSM
Well-Known Member
The Satterlee load test isn't using SD to find the load. It just shows you the velocity flat spots that are the nodes. I chrono my loads that I do my ladder test with. And the chrono flat spot always is the same as the flat spot on the ladder. Normally in clusters of 3 bullets. Most of my loads are done in 1/3 grain increments. Bigger magnums I do 1/2 grain and anything under 40 grains capacity I do 2/10 grain. My creed will almost always have 4 rounds go flat for a 1.3 grain window. My 300wsm always has a 1.5 or better window. That's why 300wsm is so easy to load for and stays in tune real good. It's a very popular 1000 yard match round. The ladder and the Satterlee doesn't give you your exact load but it gives you the window to start your tweaking from. One other nice aspect of ladders is that you can define what powder is best real easy. There are 3 powders I use for my creed and I shoot a ladder with each. Always one powder will show a much smaller ladder group than the others. That's the powder I try first. Once your all tuned up you can do different primers too. If my load is 45 grains I will take the new primers and load 44.8. 45. And 45.2 and do them at same distance as my ladder and see what is smallest.
Shep
Shep
25WSM
Well-Known Member
If anyone wants to know my tuning method just ask and I will describe it. It will give you a perfect tune quickly.
Shep
Shep
User4302021
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If you or your gun can't consistently shoot 1/2 moa or better, the Audette ladder is a waste of time. At distance there will be too much noise and overlap to make sense of it.
This is what no one tells you. Of course, many here think that if you are not shooting 1/2 moa or better then you should just quit.
Also, the further you go out, the more you have to watch and account for things like mirage and other lighting effects.
The sun peeking in and out of the clouds, or a slightly gusty breeze playing with the mirage can make rounds swap places pretty easily.
Yet, no one ever mentions any of that.
This is what no one tells you. Of course, many here think that if you are not shooting 1/2 moa or better then you should just quit.
Also, the further you go out, the more you have to watch and account for things like mirage and other lighting effects.
The sun peeking in and out of the clouds, or a slightly gusty breeze playing with the mirage can make rounds swap places pretty easily.
Yet, no one ever mentions any of that.
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That's why I like 2 round ladders. You don't have to shoot 1/2moa to get a node. They are very obvious on a ladder. If you can't shoot at all, then don't worry about load development
User4302021
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...and there it is. Thank you for proving my point.That's why I like 2 round ladders. You don't have to shoot 1/2moa to get a node. They are very obvious on a ladder. If you can't shoot at all, then don't worry about load development
25WSM
Well-Known Member
The Satterlee method you don't even have to hit paper. If you can't shoot 1/2 moa you really can't tune much of anything. 1/2 moa loads are really just starting points for a match gun but is perfectly fine for hunting. Not many people can shoot 1/2 moa from hunting positions anyway.
Shep
Shep
Doing two ladder tests is proving your point? Do explain good sir...
In what load development style do you not have to shoot accurately to get results?
User4302021
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Truth is, none of these methods are used correctly by a large percentage of those attempting them.
No argument there. If you can't shoot good groups, none will find you a good node to find your best load
User4302021
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It is the hubris to which I was referring. It showed up right on cue.
