Is my load good enough for 400 yards?

[Bigeclipse]

I have been working a load for my mountain 3006 rifle. It does have a shorter barrel so I was expecting it to be relatively slow. I just worked up a very accurate .5 MOA load (YAY!) at 300 yards, but it is pretty slow. It is a 168gr TTSX going 2550fps. I wanted to check my chrono so I also shot with factory remington core lokts and those went 2675fps which is very close to advertised 2800fps so I think my chrono is pretty close. Anyways, I can keep working loads and spending money to try and find something faster, which I might do next summer, but will this load be good enough on deer at 400 yards? I would like to spend the rest of summer working on my shooting skills and bow skills (bow season is right around the corner) instead of working on more loads. What energy can I expect 400 Yards? What would a minimum energy be to ensure my ttsx still expands properly? Thank you all!

 

[scottishkat]

I have been working a load for my mountain 3006 rifle. It does have a shorter barrel so I was expecting it to be relatively slow. I just worked up a very accurate .5 MOA load (YAY!) at 300 yards, but it is pretty slow. It is a 168gr TTSX going 2550fps. I wanted to check my chrono so I also shot with factory remington core lokts and those went 2675fps which is very close to advertised so I think my chrono is pretty close. Anyways, I can keep working loads and spending money to try and find something faster, which I might do next summer, but will this load be good enough on deer at 400 yards? I would like to spend the rest of summer working on my shooting skills and bow skills (bow season is right around the corner) instead of working on more loads. What energy can I expect 400 Yards? What would a minimum energy be to ensure my ttsx still expands properly? Thank you all!

IMHO no. From a starting point of 2550 you will be crossing into the area of less energy transfer at 2400 fps fairly quickly once you get there with the 168GR TSX killing will be delayed. Try the 130's for whitetail transfer will be better at higher velocities with the TSX. The 168gr TSX will be better suited for bigger game at shorter distances in the 30-06.

Good luck and shoot straight

Bob

 

[Bigeclipse]

IMHO no. From a starting point of 2550 you will be crossing into the area of less energy transfer at 2400 fps fairly quickly once you get there with the 168GR TSX killing will be delayed. Try the 130's for whitetail transfer will be better at higher velocities with the TSX. The 168gr TSX will be better suited for bigger game at shorter distances in the 30-06.

Good luck and shoot straight

Bob

that's disappointing. So my rifle is a slow rifle since factory loads were only going 2675FPS more...? I am at the book max for my load (50 grains imr 4064). I have not attempted to try loading higher than that looking for pressure signs. I know there were none at the 50grain mark.

What would you say my current loads max range is? 300 yards? 200 yards?

 

[varmintH8R]

I think at slower velocities, on deer size game, a TTSX is not a great bullet choice. They seem to excel at retaining mass at high velocity and/or on larger game. You may consider working up a load with a 168gr cup and core bullet. At those speeds you should have no concern with expansion at 400yds, and the chances of under-penetration at shorter range is low.

My 2C

Brandon

 

[varmintH8R]

As an aside, if you do only a quick work-up of a cup-and-core load, and it only shoots 1MOA, you are still hitting +\- 2 inches from POA at 400 yds (your max range). That should kill deer with some room to spare! Don't sweat 10ths if your application doesn't require it.

 

[gohring3006]

I had good luck with hornady interlocs btsp seated to the canalure with 50 gr. 4064 2800ish fps 24in barrel sub moa all the way to 400 in a 3006....

 

[Bigeclipse]

IMHO no. From a starting point of 2550 you will be crossing into the area of less energy transfer at 2400 fps fairly quickly once you get there with the 168GR TSX killing will be delayed. Try the 130's for whitetail transfer will be better at higher velocities with the TSX. The 168gr TSX will be better suited for bigger game at shorter distances in the 30-06.

Good luck and shoot straight

Bob

Thanks for the advice.

I think at slower velocities, on deer size game, a TTSX is not a great bullet choice. They seem to excel at retaining mass at high velocity and/or on larger game. You may consider working up a load with a 168gr cup and core bullet. At those speeds you should have no concern with expansion at 400yds, and the chances of under-penetration at shorter range is low.

My 2C

Brandon

I checked the TTSX bullet guidelines and it states it should hbe traveling at least 2000fps for proper expansion. My bullet will still be traveling at ~2000fps around 275 yards according to my ballistics program. Although it is not my goal of 400 yards, it may work for my hunting style this year while I work on a new load. Do you agree if I keep it inside 275yards I will be ok? It took me a bit to get this load and I really am afraid of lack of time. I will try my best to develope a new load for this year but this one is all sighted in and ready to go. Now as far as cup and core bullets. I am not sure what that means. Do you mean like simple lead tipped bullet such as game kings/remington core lokts, things like that...or do you mean like the nosler ballistic tip or accubond or something?

Also...any thoughts on why my gun is shooting 250FPS below what the barnes manual says (Barnes says I should be about 2800fps) it should be with this load? I expected a difference as I know reloading has a lot to do with the gun and set-up being used but dang that is quite a bit off.

Thanks again!

I had good luck with hornady interlocs btsp seated to the canalure with 50 gr. 4064 2800ish fps 24in barrel sub moa all the way to 400 in a 3006....

I will look into those!

 

[trebark]

Gonna have to disagree with a couple of the posts here. I think your bullet choice and velocity will work fine on deer at 400 yards. Here's what I found.....

Using JBM online ballistic calculator, I used the 168TTSX bullet at 2550fps with G1 BC of .470. At 400 yards it's velocity is 1817fps and retained energy of 1232ft lbs.

According to the Barnes website, 1817fps is sufficient velocity to expand the bullet and 1232ft lbs. is certainly enough energy to kill deer sized game.

My one disclaimer is shot placement. You can have all the expansion and energy in the world but if you don't put the bullet in the right place, you will experience disappointment.

As for your question on cup and core bullets, you are correct. They are bullets like the Sierra Game Kings, Hornady Interlock and Berger bullets.

 

[roninflag]

what size deer? the whitetails here are about 70 pounds

 

[Bigeclipse]

what size deer? the whitetails here are about 70 pounds

average doe where I am located dress out at >100lbs (typical is around 115lbs) and a 1 year old buck would be about 115lbs, 2-3 year old buck 130+ and big bucks/old bucks 160+

 

[Bigeclipse]

Gonna have to disagree with a couple of the posts here. I think your bullet choice and velocity will work fine on deer at 400 yards. Here's what I found.....

Using JBM online ballistic calculator, I used the 168TTSX bullet at 2550fps with G1 BC of .470. At 400 yards it's velocity is 1817fps and retained energy of 1232ft lbs.

According to the Barnes website, 1817fps is sufficient velocity to expand the bullet and 1232ft lbs. is certainly enough energy to kill deer sized game.

My one disclaimer is shot placement. You can have all the expansion and energy in the world but if you don't put the bullet in the right place, you will experience disappointment.

As for your question on cup and core bullets, you are correct. They are bullets like the Sierra Game Kings, Hornady Interlock and Berger bullets.

I could not find the info on barnes website stating 1800fps, but in other forums people suggest it is 2000fps. Can you confirm the 1800fps? because if it is truelly 2000fps then your program suggest 275-300yards being the furthest range i would want to shoot to maintain ~2000fps. which I am ok with for this years hunting.

 

[scottishkat]

Thanks for the advice.



I checked the TTSX bullet guidelines and it states it should hbe traveling at least 2000fps for proper expansion. My bullet will still be traveling at ~2000fps around 275 yards according to my ballistics program. Although it is not my goal of 400 yards, it may work for my hunting style this year while I work on a new load. Do you agree if I keep it inside 275yards I will be ok? It took me a bit to get this load and I really am afraid of lack of time. I will try my best to develope a new load for this year but this one is all sighted in and ready to go. Now as far as cup and core bullets. I am not sure what that means. Do you mean like simple lead tipped bullet such as game kings/remington core lokts, things like that...or do you mean like the nosler ballistic tip or accubond or something?

Also...any thoughts on why my gun is shooting 250FPS below what the barnes manual says (Barnes says I should be about 2800fps) it should be with this load? I expected a difference as I know reloading has a lot to do with the gun and set-up being used but dang that is quite a bit off.

Thanks again!



I will look into those!

The 168tsx will definitely kill a 100 pound whitetail inside 300 yards. For best results regards expansion with the tsx its best to hit your target at 2400 plus. I have seen where the 338 caliber 185gr tsx bullets will expand at 1800 fps and you would have energy enough at 400 yards they just expand better at 2400.

IMO killing will be delayed at the 400 yard range for lack of rapid expansion on light skinned game like whitetailed deer.

The 130 or even the 150 is better choice IMO. It will expand faster and do what the tsx is noted for. If you send an email to barnes they will answer your question and provide you with some good advice.

Good luck and shoot straight. Don't over think that bullet it will perform if you do your part.

Bob

 

[den]

I would give some speer 165 btsp a look midway USA has them in stock b.c. is .520 & there are a lot of good reviews on midway USA also using them for deer most are using hodgdon or imr 4350 powders in 30-06

 

[roninflag]

a 168 berger, 50.5 varget, lapua brass, 210M . .030 off. ...... my second choice would be a 165 btsp . same load.