Is it possible that the ogive could vary .030" on different lots of Bergers?

[Pdvdh]

The brand & item name of the tools I use are Hornady LOCK-N-LOAD Bullet Comparator & Insert Set.

I bought two of the complete sets that have 14 bushings from .17 caliber to .45 caliber. The SKU number next to the bar code is 90255 70477.

I mic'd four of my bushings, and got the same ID measurements on the bushings as woods. My bushings were 0.010" to 0.011" under caliber size.

Like I mentioned earlier, I own a Redding Instant Indicator - Case Comparator for the 300 WIN MAG, Redding Part No. 17153, and Redding shipped it with a 0.300" ID bushing for use with the .308 caliber 300 WIN MAG The 0.300" bushing would match the inner ID of .308 caliber bores very closely.

Why Hornady produces their bushings 0.002" to 0.003" under bore diameter is beyond me? Maybe Mr. Hornady could tell us???

 

[Mikecr]

If you really wanna sneak up on a particular datum, you could drop in Redding/Wilson bushings into your Stoney/Hornady comparator:

I suspect you'll find that chosen datums relate to best overall consistency in measurement -given both tangent and secant ogives. There are compromises with everything.
I've tried em all, and vote Sinclair's 'nut' as one of the handiest tools in my box. Works as good as any.

There are only 3 things that matter toward actual seating from the lands:
1. Your maxOAL(not COAL, ref#3) is well determined.
2. The ogive is a qualified radius.
3. The same nose datum(at any point) is always used as your seating reference, w/resp to maxOAL.

50 reloaders here take 300 different approaches toward this end. Here's mine:
For #1, I use a rod down the muzzle stopped at the boltface, and then stopped at the tip of a reference bullet pressed against the lands. I'll seat this bullet for a matching COAL, and measure maxOAL with my NUT. LOG IT.
I have a nice stainless rod/stops made just for this(forget who makes), but a cleaning rod w/good stops would work fine I'm sure.

Few anywhere address #2.
Bullets vary in ogive radius, and nose/bearing lengths are not really an indicator of this. Radius can easily vary independent of nose, or bearing lengths, and it's a factor that affects these datums for sure.
I use ogive comparators offered by Bob Green to qualify them.
Bob Green New Products
I used to do it manually, you could by swapping bushings in your comparators, but it's a PITA.
Bob's tool compares two different datums on a bullet nose -at the same time, for a relative comparison of radius(radius variance). CULL BULLETS.

For #3, pick a tool your good with, and ALWAYS use it.
Like said I use this: SINCLAIR INTERNATIONAL : Sinclair Hex Style Bullet Comparators -

 

[winmagman]

Bob's tool compares two different datums on a bullet nose -at the same time, for a relative comparison of radius(radius variance). CULL BULLETS.

Mikecr,

That's exactly what I was trying to figure out how to do, just didn't know how to put it into words.

If I'm understanding this right it should ensure the distance between where your seater hits the bullet and where the bullet reaches full bore diameter are relatively consistent by ensuring the arc of the ogive is the same on each acceptable bullet. Instead of the seater hitting at .xxx diameter on the ogive regardless of differences in ogives arc caused by varying bullet lenght. Correct?

Phorwath,

That looks exactly like the Stoney Point I have. Although I only have inserts from .22 to .308. Its always served me well (at least I thought), but I may look into the Bob Green tool that Mikecr link to. May be a little over the top for just an accuracy minded hunter like myself, but it sure can't hurt.

woods,

Thanks for the pics and info, seems a lot easier to get your mind around things when you can actually see it.

Again guys
Thanks for the lesson.

Chris

 

[Pdvdh]

Phorwath,

That looks exactly like the Stoney Point I have. Although I only have inserts from .22 to .308. Its always served me well (at least I thought), but I may look into the Bob Green tool that Mikecr link to. May be a little over the top for just an accuracy minded hunter like myself, but it sure can't hurt.

Chris

The Bob Green tool is out of my price range, in light of the fact that I believe the bullets I use for LRH are very consistent, dimensionally. I seat to depths confirmed by the Hornady Bullet Comparator tool, which is very near the beginning of the ogive, and I believe that does serve our intended purpose well. That's holds my jump to the lands or my jam into lands distances very consistent, in my mind.

Bullets I load for closer range shots (Accubond & Barnes TSX) do not require near the accuracy or consistency of the bullets I load for LR shots/hunting. I'm not too worried about inconsistencies along the ogive surface with these bear/camp load bullets, which are also employed on game at ranges of less than ~300 yds.

 

[winmagman]

The Bob Green tool is out of my price range, in light of the fact that I believe the bullets I use for LRH are very consistent, dimensionally. I seat to depths confirmed by the Hornady Bullet Comparator tool, which is very near the beginning of the ogive, and I believe that does serve our intended purpose well. That's holds my jump to the lands or my jam into lands distances very consistent, in my mind.

YIKES! I didn't catch the price the first time I looked at that, certainly wouldn't want to set up for 6 or 7 caliber with that tool.

I felt the same way about the bullets and comparator I'm using, and in all honesty improving my tooling will probably not show up in the field because my current equipment seems to work above my ability level.

Bullets I load for closer range shots (Accubond & Barnes TSX) do not require near the accuracy or consistency of the bullets I load for LR shots/hunting. I'm not too worried about inconsistencies along the ogive surface with these bear/camp load bullets, which are also employed on game at ranges of less than ~300 yds.

I agree with that 100%

Chris

 

[Mikecr]

If I'm understanding this right it should ensure the distance between where your seater hits the bullet and where the bullet reaches full bore diameter are relatively consistent by ensuring the arc of the ogive is the same on each acceptable bullet. Instead of the seater hitting at .xxx diameter on the ogive regardless of differences in ogives arc caused by varying bullet lenght. Correct?

You got it.
And more than that, if you're comparing bearing surface or nose trimming, you need to first qualify those datums.

I didn't catch the price the first time I looked at that, certainly wouldn't want to set up for 6 or 7 caliber with that tool.

I'm proposing a revision to Bob's design that would allow for a reasonably priced 'kit' to cover multiple cals. His device is analogous to a Kevin Cram nose trimmer body, with a sliding internal bullet seater plug, that is indicated. I built one like this, the moment I noticed that nose trimming doesn't always leave meplats at the same diameter. But Bob's a better machinist than me, so he get's my business.
A kit would consist of swappable datum plates and seaters for a single body and indicator. That body should also be adapted to a stand. He should be able to knock these out in cheaper numbers(if he's interested).

 

[woods]

I have a nice stainless rod/stops made just for this(forget who makes), but a cleaning rod w/good stops would work fine I'm sure.

Is it this one from R-P Products 318-424-7867?

Best $25.00 I ever spent

 

[Mikecr]

That's it Woods

 

[Pdvdh]

Is it this one from R-P Products 318-424-7867?

Best $25.00 I ever spent

Another must-have gadget. That looks and sounds a lot easier than what i've been doing.

Thanks for sharing the photos and source information on this COL gauge.

 

[woods]

Hey Phorwath, Randy Reeves is the guy's name and he is an oil field worker but trustworthy IMO. He sent me mine without payment and said if I didn't like it I didn't have to send him his $25.00. Needless to say I sent him his well deserved money.

His e-mail is [email protected]

The tip is brass and can be unscrewed for caliber 25 and below

and 2 well made collets that lock positively on the shaft

foolproof and that helps me out

 

[Pdvdh]

Thanks woods. My e-mail inquiry has been sent. If I don't receive a response by next Tuesday, I'll try the phone number.

Hopefully Randy is still producing and selling these units. For $25, or even $35, it isn't worth me trying to improve upon his idea and product.

 

[gunner69]

Watch this

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

 

[gunner69]

Ok I wanted to share some results of the berger sorting technique video I posted: Let me give you the finer details first.

Rifle; Custom built .284 Win, Defiance Action, Schneider 28" 3 taper fluted 1:9 twist, reamed for neck turned necked up Lapua brass, Jewell Trigger 1.5 lb, Grey Bull bedded stock., Near base and Rings, GreyBull/ Leupold scope, PTG bottom metal.

Load: necked turned Lapua brass. .001 neck tension, Wolf Large primers, 51.4 gr R17, Berger 180 VLD hunting bullets sorted by seating depth. I am getting 2848 fps. In the video I mention that my rifle like them seated .010 in the lands. I subsequently discovered that it actually much prefers then .010 off the lands:

Here is the results: Target is a 50 yard target 1/2" rings. The 6 round group was taken at 302 yards. This makes my rifle approx. 1/4 MOA accuracy



Again here is the bullet sorting technique:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etgIVSSl8L8]CONSISTENT BULLET DEPTH SEATING - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Mikecr]

Gunner69, you need new calipers or something..
That GROUP isn't 1/4moa(unless you're picking best 3 out maybe), and nowhere near 1/4moa of ACCURACY.
Just sayin,, you should check it again.

It doesn't surprise me that you found better performance with seating elsewhere from herd murmurs though. There just never has been any reason to assume jams are best.