Introducing the .20 Primal.

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Coyote Shadow Tracker said:
So we are on POST #41.
The excitement is tooo much for me.
Greg give us the BALASTICS before I go and make me a 20 GregMoore!
Is this 20Primal going to give us something much better than a .204Ruger?
I see you have all the 55gr that Berger manufactured so you have the market on bullets. I think that Berger already knows the limit on their Cup & Core Bullets and then Brian calculated the BC.
Are you looking for this to be a TRUE 1K 20Cal?
There has been a few .17 and .20 Lasers that have come and gone.
I have done some hunting with the 204 Ruger, .223 and 22-250 and they all preformed well with the right bullet, Barrel Twist and Powder.
Click to expand...
Well for comparison, I can hit 3,500 fps with these .55's in a 20BRA very easily. :)

As for what I'm looking for it to be...
It's for me. That's what it's for. Me. I've got a bunch of SAC dies for it sitting on the shelf, so if some other folks want it... great, I'll be providing ongoing support for it.

However, there's no world where this takes the place of something like a .204 ruger. If a guy is happy with a 204 and that trash brass... then there's nothing I'm talking about in the .20cal world that they'll need me for. lol

That's the long way of saying, I'm not selling this. I'm offering it to those that have already decided they want it. :)

There's no such thing as a "true 1k .20cal." What I was going for here was rock solid brass with good availability and ultra-precise/accurate with forgiving nodes that will allow for slightly extended range over the .20BRA. Also I was looking to get that velocity up to really hammer the coyotes to the ground.

Grafs should be getting another run of 55's at some point. When I launched my .20BRA youtube video... they sold out lickety split. When they do get resupplied, buy a bunch, quickly. ;) I'll probably grab another 50-60,000 at that point for myself... and I should be set for a few years. Luckily I have several .22BRA's and I spend a LOT of time shooting them in the dog towns, so that takes the pressure off my .20cal bullet supply. It's a lot easier to buy 75gr ELDM's by the 3.5k case.

I'll post some load/ballistic data on the .20 Primal in the coming days. :)


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orkan said:
Well for comparison, I can hit 3,500 fps with these .55's in a 20BRA very easily. :)

As for what I'm looking for it to be...
It's for me. That's what it's for. Me. I've got a bunch of SAC dies for it sitting on the shelf, so if some other folks want it... great, I'll be providing ongoing support for it.

However, there's no world where this takes the place of something like a .204 ruger. If a guy is happy with a 204 and that trash brass... then there's nothing I'm talking about in the .20cal world that they'll need me for. lol

That's the long way of saying, I'm not selling this. I'm offering it to those that have already decided they want it. :)

There's no such thing as a "true 1k .20cal." What I was going for here was rock solid brass with good availability and ultra-precise/accurate with forgiving nodes that will allow for slightly extended range over the .20BRA. Also I was looking to get that velocity up to really hammer the coyotes to the ground.

Grafs should be getting another run of 55's at some point. When I launched my .20BRA youtube video... they sold out lickety split. When they do get resupplied, buy a bunch, quickly. ;) I'll probably grab another 50-60,000 at that point for myself... and I should be set for a few years. Luckily I have several .22BRA's and I spend a LOT of time shooting them in the dog towns, so that takes the pressure off my .20cal bullet supply. It's a lot easier to buy 75gr ELDM's by the 3.5k case.

I'll post some load/ballistic data on the .20 Primal in the coming days. :)


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Click to expand...
Greg
Merry Christmas!
I know that you will finally come out with your version and load data.
Like the suspense!
Thanks
Len & Jill
 

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You guys shooting light-per-cal bullets must really like wind drift.

... and I mean must REALLY like it.

A .22cal 40gr bullet going 4400fps has 0.8 mil of wind at 300yds in a 10mph 9:00 condition. So you're basically holding 2x the wind, as you are elevation. It goes up by a tenth of a mil PER MILE PER HOUR. Out here where I live, that means I can be dialing out or holding over 2 mils of wind at 300yds.

Folks act like I haven't done all that before. I've run every .22cal wildcat you can imagine. Every single one of them stinks on ice compared to heavy for cal bullets.

Here's a 6mm I did last year:

8qawWoo.jpg


It sucks with light bullets too. I've been over 5,000fps more times than I can remember. It sucks... because it takes little light per cal bullets to get there.
Anyone that likes actually hitting things at distance will want heavy-per-cal bullets with the highest BC they can get, moving as fast as they can get them moving. I've done as much of the lightweight bullet thing as anyone... and it sucks, it just sucks. Sure it can be fun to go vaporize some pdogs at close distances, but the misses at 500yds due to a 0.5mph breath of wind you didn't catch, quickly make it no fun anymore.

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Greg
I don't want to get in an extended debate with you. I think that your 20 Primal should be a hit. As always you tend to leave some suspense in what you are building, which keeps us looking for the results. A lot of us can guess on the parent case and some ballistics until you reveal your test results with components. We are sure that you already did your homework before mentioning your .20 Primal on LRH.

This is your statement and would like some clarity. "However, there's no world where this takes the place of something like a .204 ruger. If a guy is happy with a 204 and that trash brass... then there's nothing I'm talking about in the .20cal world that they'll need me for. lol"

What Brass are you talking about for the .204 Ruger? We personally only use LAPUA Brass for most of our reloading and would use Lapua for the .204R but Lapua does not make .204 Ruger Brass.
We have been using Nosler Premium Brass in our .204 Ruger, 39gr SBK, H-4895, Fed Match Gold GM205M Primers. We have been getting 0.156" MOA.
Do you consider Nosler Premium "TRASH BRASS".

Thanks much!
Len & Jill
 
Coyote Shadow Tracker said:
Greg
I don't want to get in an extended debate with you. I think that your 20 Primal should be a hit. As always you tend to leave some suspense in what you are building, which keeps us looking for the results. A lot of us can guess on the parent case and some ballistics until you reveal your test results with components. We are sure that you already did your homework before mentioning your .20 Primal on LRH.

This is your statement and would like some clarity. "However, there's no world where this takes the place of something like a .204 ruger. If a guy is happy with a 204 and that trash brass... then there's nothing I'm talking about in the .20cal world that they'll need me for. lol"

What Brass are you talking about for the .204 Ruger? We personally only use LAPUA Brass for most of our reloading and would use Lapua for the .204R but Lapua does not make .204 Ruger Brass.
We have been using Nosler Premium Brass in our .204 Ruger, 39gr SBK, H-4895, Fed Match Gold GM205M Primers. We have been getting 0.156" MOA.
Do you consider Nosler Premium "TRASH BRASS".

Thanks much!
Len & Jill
Click to expand...
Len if you like the 204 ruger, then keep liking it my friend. There's plenty to like, depending on what ones goals are.

I liked it back when I could get 1000rnds of fiochi 40gr for $250 and just let the brass hit the ground. Pretty hard to not get along with that program for general purpose varmint shooting.

Alpha Munititons and Lapua. They are the only two companies on planet earth that can make brass that meets my standards at the moment, and Lapua is just barely staying on my list due to Alpha not making brass for some of my favorite cartridges yet.

As per usual, lots of people can be happy with lots of stuff out there if they aren't trying to do what I'm doing. Nothing wrong with being happy, and my level isn't for everyone.


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Alpha makes great brass and I like that they are US manufacture. However their variety of cases are limited. Mostly cater to Creedmoor and 6MM (PRS) Cases and my favorite .260Rem. When I start to run low on Lapua will consider getting Alpha if they have in stock what we need.
 
orkan said:
You guys shooting light-per-cal bullets must really like wind drift.

... and I mean must REALLY like it.

A .22cal 40gr bullet going 4400fps has 0.8 mil of wind at 300yds in a 10mph 9:00 condition. So you're basically holding 2x the wind, as you are elevation. It goes up by a tenth of a mil PER MILE PER HOUR. Out here where I live, that means I can be dialing out or holding over 2 mils of wind at 300yds.

Folks act like I haven't done all that before. I've run every .22cal wildcat you can imagine. Every single one of them stinks on ice compared to heavy for cal bullets.

Here's a 6mm I did last year:

View attachment 518992

It sucks with light bullets too. I've been over 5,000fps more times than I can remember. It sucks... because it takes little light per cal bullets to get there.
Anyone that likes actually hitting things at distance will want heavy-per-cal bullets with the highest BC they can get, moving as fast as they can get them moving. I've done as much of the lightweight bullet thing as anyone... and it sucks, it just sucks. Sure it can be fun to go vaporize some pdogs at close distances, but the misses at 500yds due to a 0.5mph breath of wind you didn't catch, quickly make it no fun anymore.

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Click to expand...
If I want to buck the wind it's not gonna be using a 20 or 22 for that matter. I'm curious to see the ballistics on this round. Seems like a neat little round you have and I'm for sure intrigued. Needing another coyote night rig in ar and this might be the ticket?
 
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orkan said:
I'm not asking because I don't already know... I'm asking so we can have some dialogue on this thread besides my own. ;)

Here's my supply of 55gr bergers.

View attachment 518930


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That's a lot of burgers!!!! Oops! I mean "Bergers". I do like burgers too.

I have a curiosity itching in my brain for a while now….and I know you've messed around with things more than most.

Do you think there'd be any benefit to experimenting with gain twists with cartridges this overbore so the initial engraving doesn't as likely rip the jacket from the core? Maybe slow down throat erosion too? And what about polygonal rifling instead of lands and grooves? I've always wondered why no one really experiments with polygonal rifling in fire breathing rifle cartridges, you'd think they'd be less erosion prone than protruding lands? Maybe too expensive, too hard to get right, poor results, or just that no one does that???

Curious what you think.
 
bfarms said:
If I want to buck the wind it's not gonna be using a 20 or 22 for that matter. I'm curious to see the ballistics on this round. Seems like a neat little round you have and I'm for sure intrigued. Needing another coyote night rig in ar and this might be the ticket?
Click to expand...
.20 or .22… my point is that bullet selection alone, regardless of cartridge, can double your required wind hold.


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orkan said:
Len if you like the 204 ruger, then keep liking it my friend. There's plenty to like, depending on what ones goals are.

I liked it back when I could get 1000rnds of fiochi 40gr for $250 and just let the brass hit the ground. Pretty hard to not get along with that program for general purpose varmint shooting.

Alpha Munititons and Lapua. They are the only two companies on planet earth that can make brass that meets my standards at the moment, and Lapua is just barely staying on my list due to Alpha not making brass for some of my favorite cartridges yet.

As per usual, lots of people can be happy with lots of stuff out there if they aren't trying to do what I'm doing. Nothing wrong with being happy, and my level isn't for everyone.


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Click to expand...

Boy this is SOO true, the swift spittin little pills at SUPER Mach speed is awesome up close TOF on the super speed helps but not enough.
That's why when it's breezy ya gotta go with the .243 Winnie, when it's windy I grab the 6.5 PRC and when it's Gail force I break out the 30-378!!! AINT SKERD of no wind LOL... Man that cartridge looks awesome!!!
 
orkan said:
.20 or .22… my point is that bullet selection alone, regardless of cartridge, can double your required wind hold.


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Click to expand...
Yea I know your point and what you are saying is true. But when I'm worried about wind a 20 or 22 isn't what I'm gonna grab. Hence the reason I shoot 52 gr. Plus it shoots great with them. Can't say I've missed a varmit yet with it. So like I said I can't wait to see these ballistics. If it's that much better over what I run count me in on one. I'm actually one that could care less about barrel life and realize they make them everyday lol
 
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