Innovative Technologies Reloading Products?

[Trickymissfit]

...never mind the fact that the case head to body aren't perfectly square on virgin brass and you may be dealing with banana cases to a small degree even after firing in the perfect chamber due to uneven case wall thickness, all of which assumes your chamber and bolt face are true and concentric to begin with as you pointed out.

I think I'll stick with the HNL comparator to get a workable setting for my dies and then spot check just every now and then to be sure there hasn't been any meaningful drift.

One option might be to use your reamer to make a die which could sit neck down on a flat base and then use a flat/square ground disk on top of the case head to measure with an indcator. That might mitigate the effects of the ellusive centerline much like your Wilson seater doesn't have to be dead center under the arbor press. ...a simpler, home made version of the the Redding Instant Indicator. But, you don't fire your ammo in a die or in a Redding indicator. You fire it in a chamber made from a particular reamer as you pointed out.

It really comes down to what you want to accomplish. If you're out for speed/efficiency, then indicators are faster/easier for me than calipers and mics. But, I don't check HS on every case.

If you only want to be within a thou, then calipers are pretty easy to spot check.

If you want to go to tenths, then I suspect you need to reasses not only the measuring apparatus and technique, but the general behavior of brass (temperature, spring back, settling, work hardening, etc) as well as your process for sizing and staying within your desired tolerance which may or may not have a bearing on precision shooting.

-- richard

I did make some shell holders once out of 1" Thompson rod, to use in my Wilson trimmer. So i guess that would also work OK. I have a little gauge I made for checking case run out years and years ago. Don't use it much anymore, but it's great for checking a case for the banana. I fit all my cases to the chamber first. I personally see little benifit in getting it right down to a couple tenths, but I do try to work in a +/-.0005" window. I doubt that my dies are any better than that anyway.
gary

 

[gamehawker]

I talked to Sinclair and ordered the Hornady Lock-N-Load Headspace Gauge Tool. I wanted to get the Sinclair Bump Gauges but the reloading advisor at Sinclair said that they would not work with the 257 Weatherby Magnum double radius shoulder and the Hornady Lock-N-Load Headspace Gauge Tool would work.

 

[kc0pph]

Ill email him from IT and send him this link, let him read through this and provide feedback. Mabye we are all using this wrong, and he can fix all of our problems in one shot in this one thread. I like to give a guy a chance to defend himself before i give up on it. Expecially on this forum, its ranked highly on Google...

 

[Trickymissfit]

I talked to Sinclair and ordered the Hornady Lock-N-Load Headspace Gauge Tool. I wanted to get the Sinclair Bump Gauges but the reloading advisor at Sinclair said that they would not work with the 257 Weatherby Magnum double radius shoulder and the Hornady Lock-N-Load Headspace Gauge Tool would work.

Just looking at the case drawings a second on the .257 mag, it looks to me like a .285 bore is about right for the bushing. That is where the two radi intersect on the shoulder. I can see where the Hornaday outfit wouldn't work, but it would work with a Davidson. Even more interesting is that Stoney Point sold me all the pieces to do .270 mag brass, and Hornaday bought Stoney Point. I never checked the bore size on the .270 bushing, and have used it exactly one time. Set my dies up, and they've never been touched again. Yet when I look at the drawings I see no gauge line numbers. The AA manual looks like the headspace deminsion is 2.153", but without actually CADing it out I still would not trust it. I probably need to make up a drawing to see just what is right. The .270 mag case and the .257 mag case are very similar but for the neck diameter.
gary

 

[Bart B]

The collet die is a waste of time, UNLESS you're getting excessive case bulges where the web meets the case wall, this only happens if you FL size back to SAAMI specs, if you partial FL size by bumping the shoulder back only .002" you will never have this problem. (BTW, I have never seen this case bulging in a properly headspaced barrel, which must be held to .220" for proper functioning, no more, no less!)

Few folks realize what that microscopic step in front of the belt on H&H style case heads does to degrade accuracy. Getting rid of it in fired belted cases was the norm years ago when 30 caliber magnums ruled the roost for long range matches. Best accuracy then ( and also typical these days ) is with new or proper full length sized cases, that is, if one wants best accuracy for 25 to 30 shots instead of only 5 or so.

Back then, smart folks would cut the top and bottom off a standard belted case full length sizing die then use it after regular full length sizing a fired case to get the body diameter immediately in front of the belt back to near new diameters. Best thing about the Innovative collet die is it moves brass only radially and not both radially and lengthwise which the old "body" dies did.

If your belted case rifle won't shoot sub 6/10ths MOA at 1000 yards, you may want to get one of these collet dies. Otherwise, stick with new cases; they'll shoot that well very easily.

(BTW, case bulging and creating a micro step in front of the belt will happen quite a bit with a belted chamber headspaced at exactly .220". If one knows what new belted case headspace dimensions are for those made within SAAMI specs, they should be able to figure out why this is reality. Note the belt's front edge is typically back a few thousandths from the chamber belt's edge when peak pressure is reached in the barrel. I've worn out four 30 caliber magnum barrels all with headspace set right at SAAMI minimum of .220" and all new cases had that step when first fired.)

 

[Bart B]

The collet die is a waste of time, UNLESS you're getting excessive case bulges where the web meets the case wall, this only happens if you FL size back to SAAMI specs, if you partial FL size by bumping the shoulder back only .002" you will never have this problem.

Anytime a full length sizing die sets/bumps the fired case shoulder back any amount, that's full length sizing.

Partial full length sizing's when the fired case shoulder is not set back. And typically, only part of the neck's sized down. Fired case shoulders typically get pushed forward when the case is partially full length sized.

 

[Midnitesooner]

Lads, I am new to this posting thing, but not to reloading. I do use the digital headspace gauge from IT. It works extremly well, although at the beginning it took a bit of getting used to. The best thing of course is that this is a one time purchase for most calibers. Also, in regards to case bulging, this typically does not occur in the chamber, but during the sizing process. The collet die really does work when needed. Nice to meet you all by the way.

 

[Joe King]

so what would be the chances we could get these guys to think up a concentricity gauge that reads in the same manner as the Sinclair, but allows you to correct bullet runout like the Hornady? At a competitive price to each.

 

[Bart B]

Also, in regards to case bulging, this typically does not occur in the chamber, but during the sizing process.

If you're referring to that step in the case body immediately in front of the belt that extends a few thousandths forward, I disagree. All of my brand spankin' new cases have that step (bulge) after their first firing. That's from SAAMI spec'd chambers in the belt area where headspace is between .220 and .221 inch.

I used a custom made body die from the middle part of a standard full length sizing die to size that step back down to virtual new case diameters which were the same as the case body at that point.

 

[Bart B]

so what would be the chances we could get these guys to think up a concentricity gauge that reads in the same manner as the Sinclair, but allows you to correct bullet runout like the Hornady? At a competitive price to each.

For straightening 30 caliber loaded round case necks (and therefore bullet runout, too), I used a bullet puller with a .338" collet in it. That easily held 30 caliber loaded round case necks whose diameters ranged from .334" to .338" very well. Aligning the loaded round in the bullet puller with the high point of the bullet towards the front of the loading press, with a little practice I learned how much to push the case head back just enough to bend the case neck and straighten up the round. Rounds with as much as .008" to .009: runout ended up with nor more than .002" of bullet runout; plenty good enough for excellent accuracy..

 

[Midnitesooner]

Bart B

Interesting. I have to say that I use only Nosler custom brass in my Sako .338 win mag and never get a buldge on the first firing. That being said, my remington .338win mag would after first firing all the time. I did say however typically and not everysingle time in my prior post.

 

[Bart B]

Interesting. I have to say that I use only Nosler custom brass in my Sako .338 win mag and never get a buldge on the first firing. That being said, my remington .338win mag would after first firing all the time. I did say however typically and not everysingle time in my prior post.

If the chamber's at the long end of specs and case headspace on the belt's at the short end of specs, that ridge will happen more often than if the reverse is true. It typically depends on how much unsupported case body there is between the front of the belt and the headspace shoulder in the chamber's back end. Peak chamber pressure also plays a part; low pressure may not expand the case in front of the belt enough to cause that ridge.

 

[Midnitesooner]

If the chamber's at the long end of specs and case headspace on the belt's at the short end of specs, that ridge will happen more often than if the reverse is true. It typically depends on how much unsupported case body there is between the front of the belt and the headspace shoulder in the chamber's back end. Peak chamber pressure also plays a part; low pressure may not expand the case in front of the belt enough to cause that ridge.

Sounds like we are saying the same thing. Curious, have you ever been out to Cranbrook BC for compititions?

 

[338winmag]

I am a bit surprised at the number of users that gave negative reviews for either product. I have both and been using them for a little over 2 years on a continuous basis and I get fantastic and consistent results.

I use the digital headspace gauge on 338 Win Mag, 7mm-08, 30-06, 270 Win, 300 WSM, 300 Win Mag and 7mm Rem Mag and head spacing results are very acceptable. The trick is to get the "feel" for when the base is perfectly perpindicular. I use the tool for both validating shoulder bump for headspacing as well as validating seating depth. You can sometimes get readings off +- .001 - .0015 but my accuracy does not suffer from those deviations. True I am not a long range shooter so maybe these are not acceptable tolerances for some of you.

I have had to use the Magnum Belt die for my 338 Win Mag and 2 7mm Rem Mags. One 7mm Rem Mag I need to use the tool every 1 or 2 firings. Another 7mm Rem Mag I use every 3-4, and every 2-3 firings for my 338 Win Mag. This has extended my case life extremely well. Many of my 338 Win Mag cases are on their 9th firing and no issues. I only got a case life of 3-5 firings before using these tools.

But, I also am very fanatical with my case prep and reloading techniques and anneal every 2 firings. One other thought though is that with the exception of Redding Body Dies, I use Lee dies for neck sizing and bullet seating. The more expensive ones are sitting on a shelf.

..and unlike a number of people that before the range state they are shooting 1/2" groups at 200 yards, I really am shooting 3/4" to less than 1/2" consistent groups at 200 when I get at the range. They are shooting 1.75 - 4" groups at 200.

Now I am not a competition shooter champion nor will you see a video of me taking a bull elk at 1000 yards, but for the reloading enthusiast that is looking for tools to assist in perfecting reloads, these tools are rocket science and I won't reload without them.

338winmag