"Inherently more accurate"

[Radman]

Here we go again ...

I always smile when I read this, as I roll up my eyes in agreement....

(I DO understand his question but he is going to get a lot of opinions despite not asking for them. Not his fault)

 

[Lee Goodwin]

I like my 243s.
The 243 seems inherently accurate.
It shoots easy, is easy and very forgiving to reload for.
I think the short action fat case pushing a projectile that is on the lighter side for case capacity helps.
I still believe in velocity.
And, boat tails...and riding with the wind.
I think about Joe Namath putting the spin on that football and apply that to reloading...?
It is fun if it's accurate right outta the box.
It becomes fun labor if it ain't...til the powder runs out.

 

[30BR]

One thing about looking at records and what BR guys use is once one guy wins with one cartridge then every body else switches to that. So it isn't necessarily "the best", just the one that won...same with barrels and actions...a guy with wins with a Bartlien then the following comps you'll see more and more Bartliens, then someone will win with a Brux, well you get the picture...short and fat is always more accurate until a long skinny cartridge beats it.

Been shooting BR for 8 years. Not seen any long skinny winners...

 

[justinp61]

Thanks for all the replies guys. As I mentioned in my original post the phrase is used a lot without anything definitive to quantify what it means.

I'm a gear head and if someone tells me that of two cams with very similar specs that X cam will make more power than Y cam in the same engine. In theory it shouldn't but if it does I want to know why.

Justin

 

[Pointman]

Just pointing out that everything seems to placed on equipment. The guy behind the gun matters more, especially at 1000.
I'm not saying that there aren't very good arguments to made for one case or another, just pointing out that the guy shooting and winning very well could have won with a case not mentioned.

Good point, The individual taking the shot is the last influence on the position of the barrel and the trigger pull. Could be a reason why the military took some much time to teach us how to shoot in basic training. There were a few of us who had shot for a good portion of our lives but some had to be constantly told which end was the dangerous one. Sniper training really was the cherry on the top of my military training. I thought I was pretty good but they showed me just how much I didn't know. That being said, some calibers seem to do better which may be the reasoning behind the military's love of the 7.62 NATO, the 338 LM and the 50 BMGH as long-range sniper weapons. Still there are some who can make anything look like a wonder rifle. For long-range shooting, I like my 6.5 CM and 338LM. Still, I can remember the first time I hit a ground squirrel at 500 yards using a custom 25-06. Question was who was the most surprised. Me or the target

 

[30BR]

Shorter actions are also stiffer which can relate to "inherently more accurate"... like the 300 WSM compared to the .300 Win...
It would be interesting to build some identical rifles in let's say...308 win, 30/06, 300 wsm, 300 win, 30/378 then shoot the same bullet out of all of them and see what happens. Build them all on long actions too.

I can get you pretty close to that... When I started in BR, I came from an "Across the Course" (NRA HiPower) background, and had my new BR rifle set up for a 308 match chamber. Best I ever shot with it was about 3.5 inches at 600, and 18 x out of 50 at 100. (the "X" ring at our 100 yard matches is actually not much bigger than the period at the end of this sentence.)
I took the SAME rifle, changed it to a 30BR (17 twist vs 12 twist; 118 gr vs 185 gr) and it shot 28 "x" out of the box, with a high of 38 "x". But it won't shoot worth a dang at 600.
A buddy, like wise, insisted on 30-06 to start his BR career with, in an Elisio chassis, and a Defiance action. After 2 years, he swapped the barrel for a 6.5-284, and started collecting a few top 3 finishes. Same guns, same triggers, same scopes.

 

[adam32]

Been shooting BR for 8 years. Not seen any long skinny winners...

A 6.5-284 is long and skinny compared to a PPC/BRA/WSM...

The fact is; bullets, barrels and the shooter make up 90% of accuracy...some cases may

I can get you pretty close to that... When I started in BR, I came from an "Across the Course" (NRA HiPower) background, and had my new BR rifle set up for a 308 match chamber. Best I ever shot with it was about 3.5 inches at 600, and 18 x out of 50 at 100. (the "X" ring at our 100 yard matches is actually not much bigger than the period at the end of this sentence.)
I took the SAME rifle, changed it to a 30BR (17 twist vs 12 twist; 118 gr vs 185 gr) and it shot 28 "x" out of the box, with a high of 38 "x". But it won't shoot worth a dang at 600.
A buddy, like wise, insisted on 30-06 to start his BR career with, in an Elisio chassis, and a Defiance action. After 2 years, he swapped the barrel for a 6.5-284, and started collecting a few top 3 finishes. Same guns, same triggers, same scopes.

Different brands of barrels?

I was thinking, to test this you'd have to use the same barrel and keep setting it back and rechambering it for a "fair" test.

 

[Lee Goodwin]

To make it a math equation...
Take the neck diameter of the 243, take case length, shoulder width and base width...
Create a formula that based on neck diameter calculates a case proportionately sized to recreate the 243 but would be bigger if need be.
Make the projectile 8mm. Then name this new candle after someone you love.
Rock on!

 

[Barrelnut]

I can get you pretty close to that... When I started in BR, I came from an "Across the Course" (NRA HiPower) background, and had my new BR rifle set up for a 308 match chamber. Best I ever shot with it was about 3.5 inches at 600, and 18 x out of 50 at 100. (the "X" ring at our 100 yard matches is actually not much bigger than the period at the end of this sentence.)
I took the SAME rifle, changed it to a 30BR (17 twist vs 12 twist; 118 gr vs 185 gr) and it shot 28 "x" out of the box, with a high of 38 "x". But it won't shoot worth a dang at 600.
A buddy, like wise, insisted on 30-06 to start his BR career with, in an Elisio chassis, and a Defiance action. After 2 years, he swapped the barrel for a 6.5-284, and started collecting a few top 3 finishes. Same guns, same triggers, same scopes.

AND same shooters.

 

[Mram10us]

The fact is; bullets, barrels and the shooter make up 90% of accuracy...some cases may

In br 1000 I don't think the shooter has as much influence. Have you seen how they shoot? Go back a few pages and look at the video of the guy shooting at williamsport. Again, not knocking, but if my form were like that off my bipod at 1000+ I'd hit the dirt in front of me. That is why I think BR is the perfect gauge of cartridges, not just shooters.

 

[11confederate]

The 50 BMG is "inherently more accurate" than a 22 lr at 300 yards.

"Inherently" implies removing the other legs of the triangle from the equation, the shooter and the rifle.

To my simple understanding, BC Ballistic Coefficient is primary for long range accuracy and energy on target primary for hunting effectiveness.

 

[Jluck]

I don't agree. Br is very equipment oriented. Why are the same cartridges on the top 100 list?

Because everyone uses the same type/style cartridges for certain competitions. how could they not end up as one of the top.

 

[30BR]

A 6.5-284 is long and skinny compared to a PPC/BRA/WSM...
The fact is; bullets, barrels and the shooter make up 90% of accuracy...some cases may
Different brands of barrels?
I was thinking, to test this you'd have to use the same barrel and keep setting it back and rechambering it for a "fair" test.

But you can't shoot a 140 gr. in a PPC or a BRA, and the WSM IS used in 1000 yd. The 6.5-284 is shorter/fatter; it uses a rebated rim, in a std. boltface.
Barrels are weird. Talked with John Kreiger at length, and in BR every now and then you get what we call a hummer; a barrel that just shoots better than normal. He is trying to determine the chemistry of those tubes; no one really knows why some barrels shoot great and others won't.
You can't keep setting the barrel back and re-chambering because the ideal projectiles per ctg. will normally require different twist rates.
***Now having said that, most highpower shooters (back in the day...) went 308 rather than 30-06, and still used the 168 Sierra. Why? Because the 308 was easier to get to shoot well than the 06. Can a High Master still shoot a 30-06 as well as a 308? Yes. But most elected not to, simply because they get equal or better results with the shorter 308 case, with less work getting there and less wear and tear on the shoulder.

 

[adam32]

You can't keep setting the barrel back and re-chambering because the ideal projectiles per ctg. will normally require different twist rates.

That's what I'm getting at...you can't compare strictly the case when there are so many variables that go into each one...