Inconsistent seating depth

[TheDerkster]

I've been having issues with seating 195 eol in my 7mm Sherman short mag. At first, I had problems with every single bullet. What happened is the seater crushed the bullet and therefore slipped further down resulting in a longer base to ogive length called John whidden who makes the dies and he sent me a larger expander ball and different seater inserts after discussing that it was probably a neck tension issue.

That alleviated much of the issue, but it's still inconsistent. It seems that I'm still getting about half of the bullets with a ring dented around the bullet from the seater. This causes it to seat 10-20 thousandths less than desired. I thought maybe it was due to powder crush, but it didn't help any using less powder to the point that I could hear it shake.

The only thing I can think of to do is take a bullet and lap it to the seating insert so that they mate almost perfectly. I've never experienced this so I'm at a loss. I basically seat everything, measure, and then keep seating what's not right deeper until it's right.

 

[barefooter56]

I've been having issues with seating 195 eol in my 7mm Sherman short mag. At first, I had problems with every single bullet. What happened is the seater crushed the bullet and therefore slipped further down resulting in a longer base to ogive length called John whidden who makes the dies and he sent me a larger expander ball and different seater inserts after discussing that it was probably a neck tension issue.

That alleviated much of the issue, but it's still inconsistent. It seems that I'm still getting about half of the bullets with a ring dented around the bullet from the seater. This causes it to seat 10-20 thousandths less than desired. I thought maybe it was due to powder crush, but it didn't help any using less powder to the point that I could hear it shake.

The only thing I can think of to do is take a bullet and lap it to the seating insert so that they mate almost perfectly. I've never experienced this so I'm at a loss. I basically seat everything, measure, and then keep seating what's not right deeper until it's right.

Derkster,
You may want to just try some emery cloth around the inside of the mouth of the seating stem just to break inside edge before lapping using a bullet. Copper is a lot softer than steel so even with the lapping compound you MAY be doing more work on the bullet than the inside of the seater stem. That just my opinion.

 

[Cackas2]

I had the same problem with them in my 28 Nosler. It was throated long specifically for the 195's and I ended up getting the extended vld seating stem for my redding competition die. That fixed the problem until I got into the next box of 195's and the seating depth on these were about .010 deeper than the first box with no change made to the die.

 

[BountyHunter]

Sounds like two issues.

1. You need a seater stem that matches the bullet profile first.

2. If you dropped the powder and still have crushing on the bullet then you have a neck tension issue. How much of a squeeze are you getting on the bullet when seated?

measure outside of resized brass and then after loaded. My bet is you are running abut .004 plus over on loaded.

 

[TheDerkster]

Sounds like two issues.

1. You need a seater stem that matches the bullet profile first.

2. If you dropped the powder and still have crushing on the bullet then you have a neck tension issue. How much of a squeeze are you getting on the bullet when seated?

measure outside of resized brass and then after loaded. My bet is you are running abut .004 plus over on loaded.

I was running a .281 expander. Stepped it up to .2825. That's only .0015 thousandths neck tension. No reason that it should be doing what it is. It doesn't press hard, just really easily leaves that dent

 

[MagnumManiac]

If you take the seater plug out and seat a bullet in it, it should slip in snug, if it bottoms out on the tip, drill it deeper until the bullet doesn't wobble or bottom out on the tip.

Contact Whidden and explain the problem.
BTW, I have never seen plastic tips melting on any bullets. Have recovered plenty from both BT's and Accubonds, a little compressed, but not melted!!

Cheers.
gun)

 

[royinidaho]

Only similar...but,

End of uneven SMK tips touched end of seater. Resulted in excessive ES.

Drilled completely through. Bullet then rested on now mated ogive and seater. ES problem solved.


Switched bullets. Ogive shape now "grasped" the seater sufficiently to pull the bullet greatly lengthening COL.

I simply chucked one of the new bullets in their lathe tail stock and the seater in their chuck, kept coating there bullet with toothpaste and honed until there was a bearing surface instead of a sharp point of contact.

No fuss no muss no bother. And it worked. Think about it.

 

[TheDerkster]

If you take the seater plug out and seat a bullet in it, it should slip in snug, if it bottoms out on the tip, drill it deeper until the bullet doesn't wobble or bottom out on the tip.

Contact Whidden and explain the problem.
BTW, I have never seen plastic tips melting on any bullets. Have recovered plenty from both BT's and Accubonds, a little compressed, but not melted!!

Cheers.
gun)

I did. He graciously sent me 3 new stems and the larger expander. Hes a pretty great guy to deal with.

But it didn't help much. Ive been doing some more research and if I remember in the morning, im gonna take 3-4 bullets and one of the stems to lap them together. I work at the machine shop between classes so I should have plenty of options. Lathe seems to be the general "best fit" for the job. I also thought about a polishing pad but Ill see.

 

[TheDerkster]

Only similar...but,

End of uneven SMK tips touched end of seater. Resulted in excessive ES.

Drilled completely through. Bullet then rested on now mated ogive and seater. ES problem solved.


Switched bullets. Ogive shape now "grasped" the seater sufficiently to pull the bullet greatly lengthening COL.

I simply chucked one of the new bullets in their lathe tail stock and the seater in their chuck, kept coating there bullet with toothpaste and honed until there was a bearing surface instead of a sharp point of contact.

No fuss no muss no bother. And it worked. Think about it.

I definitely plan on lapping the seater.

But its not a tip hitting issue. Its actually compressing a ring into the bullet where the seater hits. Theres room infront of the tip. But its putting such a deep ring at times that I can increase my seating depth almost 30-40 thousands over what I want. Say, I try to get them at 2.1755, but I end up with 2.145, which did happen the other day. It looked bad enough I pulled the bullet. Its like the seater has a very very small area of contact on the EOLs and as such, its forming the bullet until it has enough contact to push the bullet where it needs to go.

Hopefully I have some grinding compound laying around at the shop. I can probably get it to be pretty good and get some more accurate results I hope. Im use to my Lee Seater Die for the 308 where I am almost always with +-.0005 inches. Super accurate as well. I think this die set has potential, it just needs a little more work.

 

[barefooter56]

Guys,
One thing I just remembered that came to my attention from a customer. There have been occasions where a "coil bind" issue has occurred in SOME seaters with the sliding sleeve assembly causing erratic seating depth and ringing of the bullet tip. Derkster, if you are getting a ring on the nose of the bullet ( in some cases this is just the tarnish being removed and not a dent you can feel with your thumbnail) with that light of neck tension. This MAY be something to look at. Fix is to shorten the spring in very small steps. You do not want to affect the operation of the sleeve assembly. Forster I believe has addressed this with a lighter/shorter spring in their ULTRA and BENCHREST seaters.

 

[TheDerkster]

Guys,
One thing I just remembered that came to my attention from a customer. There have been occasions where a "coil bind" issue has occurred in SOME seaters with the sliding sleeve assembly causing erratic seating depth and ringing of the bullet tip. Derkster, if you are getting a ring on the nose of the bullet ( in some cases this is just the tarnish being removed and not a dent you can feel with your thumbnail) with that light of neck tension. This MAY be something to look at. Fix is to shorten the spring in very small steps. You do not want to affect the operation of the sleeve assembly. Forster I believe has addressed this with a lighter/shorter spring in their ULTRA and BENCHREST seaters.

It is definitely leaving a substantial dent in the bullet.

Say, if I pull that spring out, and it still does it, that should determine if that is the problem right? Of course it'll still need a sprshooting to function properly.

 

[FEENIX]

I definitely plan on lapping the seater.

But its not a tip hitting issue. Its actually compressing a ring into the bullet where the seater hits. Theres room infront of the tip. But its putting such a deep ring at times that I can increase my seating depth almost 30-40 thousands over what I want. Say, I try to get them at 2.1755, but I end up with 2.145, which did happen the other day. It looked bad enough I pulled the bullet. Its like the seater has a very very small area of contact on the EOLs and as such, its forming the bullet until it has enough contact to push the bullet where it needs to go.

Hopefully I have some grinding compound laying around at the shop. I can probably get it to be pretty good and get some more accurate results I hope. Im use to my Lee Seater Die for the 308 where I am almost always with +-.0005 inches. Super accurate as well. I think this die set has potential, it just needs a little more work.

IIWY, I'd definitely work with John closely and give him the opportunity to resolve the issue before doing any work yourself.

Good luck!

 

[barefooter56]

As Feenix said. Give John a call and see what he says. Ask if his seating die uses the same spring as the Forster dies. If it does I believe you can get a replacement through Forster. John may not even know this has been and issue in some cases. Johns a great guy and you should have no problems getting this resolved.

 

[Mikecr]

It is definitely leaving a substantial dent in the bullet.

Wedging. You're not seating bullet bearing into neck/shoulder junction(donut), are you?
How high on the ogive is the stem contact? like 1/3up from tip, 1/2, 3/4?