I need a new rifle wanna help.. part 2 sorta..



This worked for Dave so I thought I'd give it a try.. I realize he's nice, more popular, and doesn't have the odor I do.. but hey, apparently I can cook!!

OK I am in the same situation as Dave.. but my requirments are different...

I am looking to build a tactical rifle that will take care of shorter range work but on occasion stretch to 800+ yards. A proven tack driver and not real had on the wallet or my shoulder...

I want a rifle that weighs about 12lbs or so..
I am sold on the A5 so that's a for sure, don't need bells and whistles on the stock...

caliber is my big problem.. I was thinking .308 but then I have read and was told about how the .260 out performs the 308 when using the 142/140 gr bullets. I ran the numbers and on paper... yup.. it sure does...

but I have this buddy who is known for saying enough and answers every question but never saying to much...unless you really pry..
and he mentioned, I'd be looking for more and go with the 6.5/284 since BH is making match ammo ( I can't seem to find it though ) ..

so wadday think...
WyoWhisper the 308 is a good rd. Its easy to find ammo. And it does not eat up barrels. My friend has an 308 M24 that has about 43,000 rds throw it and is still shooting sub min.


I was tossing this around a couple of years ago and was in the same quandary, 6.5-284 or (in my case) the 260 Rem. AI. I was reading and calculating and not coming up with much for a decision. Then I read a couple of threads here by Steve Alstadt who works for Prairie Gun Works up in Canada. He has been shooting the 260 AI for a while and winning some of their long range shooting competitions. Check the PGW website.

Long story shorter, I built both the 260 AI and several 6.5-284's in the style that you are looking to do, except that I used the A3 instead of the A5. I happen to like the 260 AI much better for the short/intermediate shooting, especially if it's from the prone position. Now, from a bench with a heavier set-up, I like the 6.5-284 when going to the 1000 yard targets.

I would suggest taking a peek at the 260 AI for what you are describing. Just another opinion.

I forgot to add that I also had a couple of long conversations with the Norma bullet engineer at S.H.O.T. Show. He convinced me to use the 130 gr. Norma VLD Diamond bullets. The only difference is that I remove the moly before loading.


[ 12-17-2003: Message edited by: Crispin Goodall ]
I am curious as to why so many shooters are so quick to axe the 308. It maybee possible for the 6.5-06 to out perform the 308, but never the 260 rem. It may look good on paper, but never in reality. If one bumped up the barrel length to 28" or more than it would give a 308 a run for its money. A 155 palma load, with a 12-14 twist and 26" barrel will perform like this: MV 2900-3000, we will call it 2950 FPS for now. w/a 300 yard zero would be around 268" at 1000 yards (standard conditions) with 1400 FPS remaining and about 700 FPE. 10 MPH drift would be around 86" Typical ballistic calculators will not arrive at this conclusion. This would be a real world senario. You can also purchase 155 palma loads (Federal GMM)or the 155 palma bullets are easy to find for hand loading. Now take the 6.5-06, 26" barrel. This would generate about 2900 FPS with 142 SMK and we get 260" at 1000 yards, 1460 FPS, 670 FPE,77" of 10 MPH drift. Remember, the 6.5-06 will be bigger than the 260 rem. If you go against the 308 at least go with the 6.5-284 or the 6.5-06. Also the 308 will not eat your barrels. So really, of the 3 cases (6.5-06,6.5-284,308) They each have similar ballistic qualities and some will maintain accuracy longer than others. I am sure an attitude like this is why I am not as popular and smell bad too!!
like your comments earlier!

A 260 remington would be a cool round if one was sensitive to recoil. Also a longer barrel would also increase the ballistic performance to match the 308. It just depends on what youre looking for.

That's what I like, passion!

But I don't think that anyone is trying to axe the .308, quickly or otherwise. The .308 will always stand in great stead for the yoeman's work that it does on a daily basis in all of the shooting sports. I have shot a ton of .308 and have a lot of respect for the cartridge and it's accuracy.

I am merely bored with it. I wanted to try something new and different, at least for me. The .260 AI and the 6.5-284 was what I decided on. And I like them both for different reasons. They perform well at the distances that I am capable of shooting.

My search for different cartridges continues and I remain excited while working with as many as I can afford to build. I am not prejudiced in any way, I like them ALL.

One problem we might be overlooking is to fit the 140/142s in a SA mag really cuts back on case capacity, so the 260 might not outperform the 308.
One reason the military hasn't switched to the "magic" 6.5 bore is terminal ballistics.
Dave even told me on the phone that the 6.5 was the poorest performiing on game that he had experienced. He felt the the high twist rate needed for the 142's put too much rpm's and the bullets tended to pencil through.
Food for thought.
BH makes 6.5-284 as a call for availability only, not a cataloged item. They do make awesome 308 ammo. But they don't make any 260 ammo.
I agree the 308 is a rifle everyone should either have or have owned as a learner... tactical shooter types that is.

I have two(2) 308's in the safe and I believe Ric has one around too... but like Ric I feel a need to have something else. I have the 6.5x284 down there too and really like it. (Some difference in terminal effects as Chris mentioned when compared to my standard 308 and the 175s.) I shoot the Lapua Scenar (139 I believe) now instead of the Sierra 142, check them too Ric.

been reading all the web info. I can find on the 260/6.5 bullets.. unless you push them really fast... I'm not sure they do what I want.. and if you push them too fast ( as Chris and I know ) they become really unstable...

sooo... I think I'm gonna go with the .308.. but a few more tweeks.. HS detachable..

Just gotta decide on colors now...

Oh almost forgot. I am gonna put a break on it... ( I see all of you laughing so quit ! )

Where I live the soil is sandy and dusty, even in the spring and winter.. so that becomes a real issue when shooting prone.. which I do alot of.. so the break is as much for control of the dust signature as it is recoil.. although I do like to see my hits!
Ric--a brake will blow dust everywhere unless you vent it out and up only.

I like my answer brake on my 308 (14lb A3)though--i can spot shot on prairie dogs pretty good.


p.s.--the dust really isnt super bad with the break, but would be much better if not vented down.

Good luck on your rifle.

As far as brakes are concerned, I really like the Badger brake...I shoot in the prone position 95% of the time.

The badger brake doenst blow dirt and it allows me to see bullet impacts with my 300WM.

I have heard many positive remarks about the answer brake, but I have never used one.
The break I had in mind was the OPS. Inc I had put on the 300WSM...

I had had and will only use side venting breaks...

pretty neat stuff... again another suggestion by Chris M.

He suggested the Badger or OPS. Inc.

OPS Inc. Break

Badger is more cost efficient...
Gents - have been following your thread here - the 6.5 vs 308 and or ? - and not to sound dumb(but )all the 308 talk i've heard here and all the other sites , nobody's mentioned a improved version of the 308 , I would imagine there is one or more, are they not a consideration - thanks

It's interesting that you should start this topic now as I've been thinking of something very close to your proposal within the next year or two. I'm having a big gun built right now (338 Tomahawk) and I have a 700 SA at home that needs to have something built on it. It could be the little brother to the 338 Tomahawk. I was thinking a 24 inch barrel, A5 stock, bi-pod, 3.5-10 leupold or something of the sorts. I was very much set on the 260 rem or the 260 AI shooting 139 scenars. I could maybe get 2850fps with the 139 ers and with their very good BC the numbers compared to a 175gr at the same speed are superior.
If you don't mind I would like to hear why you would pick a 308 over the 260. I'm not sure to what COL you could load them but if that kind of velocity can be attained do you really need to go faster? I'm just asking because I really thought the 260 or 260 AI was the way to go. Since I havn't wasted any money on this project yet it's not to late to change my mind. Please post your thoughts and others are of course welcome to share theirs as well.

I can probably answer for Ric: The 308 has better performance at the receiving end. High BC and speed don't make up for mass. The 175 out of a 308 has better terminal performance than a 142 out of a 260 or even a 6.5-284. The 6.5 are great for punching paper, the 308 for punching game. Sometimes what looks good on paper (ie ballistic programs) just ain't so in the real world.
Old Fart,
The 308 is one of those cartridges that you gain very little by Ackley Improving it, so it's really not worth doing.

[ 12-18-2003: Message edited by: chris matthews ]
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