How much wind, is to much?

Gotta KINDA disagree on one of your statements...shooting directly into or away from the wind. HUGE mistake. Try shooting a 10 shot string into a 20 mph headwind that may switch from say 5 oclock to 7 oclock...which is pretty much an un noticeable switch....and very common!!! I would rather shoot in a strait cross wind that swithches from 20 to 30 mph....you can at least feel that change and make some alowances for it. The difference in impact points moves TWICE the amount in the slight headwind switch situation.

Example...300 Berger at 2800 fps

A 10 mph increase in wind velocity and a 9:00 or 3:00 wind yealds an impact switch of 4.4 moa. You should be able to catch at least half of that push (or let off)...we are talking about a 50% increase (or decrease) in wind velocity.

A DIRECTION change from 5:00 to 7:00 yealds an impact switch or 8.8 MOA...from 4.4 L to 4.4 right!!! That is an 8.8 MOA difference!!!! Even if your switch is a 5:30 / 6:30 switch the impact numbers don't change that much...you would think that they would change by half, but the change is minamal....I can't do the calcs because my I6 program has a glitch in it.....it shows a 3.7 R moa with a 6:30 wind, and only a 0.8 MOA Left with a 5:30 hold...somthing is amiss with my program. We know that if a 6:30 wind yealds a 3.7 moa movement that a switch in the oppisate direction would yeald the same amount in the oppisaste direction..........For a total of 7.4 MOA difference in a 5:30 / 6:30 situation!! Again...nearly double the movement of the 10 MPH switch at 9:00 or 3:00.

Nope, give me big switches and a STRAIT CROSS WIND any day!!

And, for those saying "yah, but what about a switch from 8:00 to 10:00. Not that big of a deal...about 1 MOA!!

Just my .02,
Tod
Neither 5:30 nor 6:30 is 6:00. Neither 11:30 nor 12:30 is 12:00.

If you are shooting directly at 12 or 06:00 the only change you have is a negligible increase or decrease in relative FPS.

In any situation with a steady wind as long as you know your wind velocity and direction you can calculate your correction.

10 shot strings? Why would anyone want to waste that much ammo? We're talking about hunting here not BR shooting. The chances of the wind speed and direction both remaining exactly constant through a 10 shot string where I'm used to shooting is almost nil anyhow.

There are three shots that matter when hunting game. Your first shot and two quick follow ups because that is all you are ever likely to get on a live target.
 
The most wind I have shot in was 25-30 MPH out to 960 yards with my .308

I would never try it in a hunting situation thats for sure.

The wind correction was as much as the drop correction. haha . gun) :D
 
Neither 5:30 nor 6:30 is 6:00. Neither 11:30 nor 12:30 is 12:00.

If you are shooting directly at 12 or 06:00 the only change you have is a negligible increase or decrease in relative FPS.

In any situation with a steady wind as long as you know your wind velocity and direction you can calculate your correction.

10 shot strings? Why would anyone want to waste that much ammo? We're talking about hunting here not BR shooting. The chances of the wind speed and direction both remaining exactly constant through a 10 shot string where I'm used to shooting is almost nil anyhow.

There are three shots that matter when hunting game. Your first shot and two quick follow ups because that is all you are ever likely to get on a live target.

My point is that I have NEVER seen a wind that does not swtch velocity AND dirction at least a little bit.....and a switch from six to six thirty to five thirty is such a small switch that you would NEVER know it. Untill you miss, that is!! I can't imajin a place on earth, short of a wind tunnel, where the winds don't switch velocity AND direction at least a little. And a switch from 5:30 to 6:30 is a little. Strait cross winds are changing direction a bit, also, but you wont see it on target, because it doesn't move the bullit that much. What gets you there is the push and the let up, which I never even brought up in the headwind/tailwind situation.....that will also move your bullet around a bunch if the wind isn't DIRECTLY 6 or 12 oclock!!....kind of a two-fer!!!

You don't need to shoot 10 shot groups, either....take 1 shaot a min, or every 10 min at a 1000 yard target....do it in your 6:00 / 12:00 wind situation. In a perfect world, you are 100% correct. A 6:00 / 12:00 wind would be IDEAL....velocity changes mean nothing...but this world isn't pefect!!
With the strait cross wind, you need to worry about wind velocity almost exclusivly. A head wind/tailwind, on the other hand , demands you pay atention to the wind velocity, but more importantly, the wind direction...because a tiny switch there will mess up your day!!
 
Sure makes you appreciate the snipers who have to fire a imperfect solution in less than ideal conditions. The fact that once they do fire they are drawing counter fire. Unlike rocks and animals that don't shoot back. Anyway, my point is wow, just wow, and thanks for all the military support and members on here. I was fortunate enough to be a part time member of our Army and although not the same I still wore the uniform proud. I was able to be part of some awesome training that included counter sniper tactics. I was 12B and later became an officer. Part of our SAPPER training allowed us to work with counter sniper tactics which including trying to shoot back. I realized then, like I do now, I was in trouble if a sniper was shooting at me. Wind is the enemy to all and particularly cruel to the unskilled.
 
Yep....The military snipers are "da bomb" ..Pun intended, of course. I live in a town of 1000 and in the next town over, about 1500 people, there are TWO active duty "snipers" from there. I am not sure which branch they are serving in, or what is in the water in that town that it can produce TWO of them!! I can't wait to meet them. I know most of the people in that town, but not those two....younger generation, I guess. :D
 
Yeah, got a couple of sniper friends. Fun to shoot with. My old sniper instructor lives near me too. Once in a while I run into him out shooting. Since I didn't have a LR rig at the time we never spent any time shooting. He is a neat older gentleman.
 
My point is that I have NEVER seen a wind that does not swtch velocity AND dirction at least a little bit.....and a switch from six to six thirty to five thirty is such a small switch that you would NEVER know it. Untill you miss, that is!! I can't imajin a place on earth, short of a wind tunnel, where the winds don't switch velocity AND direction at least a little. And a switch from 5:30 to 6:30 is a little. Strait cross winds are changing direction a bit, also, but you wont see it on target, because it doesn't move the bullit that much. What gets you there is the push and the let up, which I never even brought up in the headwind/tailwind situation.....that will also move your bullet around a bunch if the wind isn't DIRECTLY 6 or 12 oclock!!....kind of a two-fer!!!

You don't need to shoot 10 shot groups, either....take 1 shaot a min, or every 10 min at a 1000 yard target....do it in your 6:00 / 12:00 wind situation. In a perfect world, you are 100% correct. A 6:00 / 12:00 wind would be IDEAL....velocity changes mean nothing...but this world isn't pefect!!
With the strait cross wind, you need to worry about wind velocity almost exclusivly. A head wind/tailwind, on the other hand , demands you pay atention to the wind velocity, but more importantly, the wind direction...because a tiny switch there will mess up your day!!
If you can't read the wind well enough to detect a shift from 6:39-6:00 and then to 5:30 etc you aren't going to hit anything beyond 600yds anyhow.

The quick way to read wind accurately is to use essentially a clock face.

The 12:00hr clock represents how many minutes? One full rotation of the minute hand = 60 mins correct?

How many degrees are in a circle? 360 right?

Divide 360/60 and what do you get?

60, correct?

So using the clock face how many degrees does 5 minutes of wind equate to?

Plug that 30degrees into your shooting solution and pull the trigger.

I make it even simpler figuring a 30 degree wind as 1/3 of the full value wind correction and pull the trigger.

At best all wind corrections in the field are going to be nothing but the best approximation you can come up with because as I explained wind will rarely be consistent over the full flight of the bullet especially if you are dealing with anything other than perfectly flat terrain.

Shoot, learn, repeat. Shoot, learn, repeat.

The best advice I ever got on long range shooting came from the best natural shot I have ever known, "Don't be afraid to miss, until you've missed a lot you won't learn how to make the critical shots when the time comes".

Once you have done a lot of practicing you will "feel it" when the shot is right and know it when it's not.

If the wind is shifting then you are going to have to use all of your down range cues to time the shot for when the wind is where you need it to be for the corrections you have figured and set up for.

Shooting is at least as much of an art as it is a science and it just takes a lot of time and practice to make it as easy as some people make it sound.
 
Sorry, but if you divide 360/60 you get six...not sixty!!!

Also the wind correction from a 9 oclock wind vs a 7 oclock wind is 50 %. 300 grain at 2800 fps, 20 mph wind, at 1k.....9:00 wind = 8.8 min.... 7 oclack wind = 4.4 min....50 % A 6:30 wind needs 3.7 moa, or 42% of full value.

Unless My Infinity program is off!! When I find my phone I will double check it on my Shooter program.

Numbers confermed on my Shooter program.
 
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Sorry, but if you divide 360/60 you get six...not sixty!!!
That is why one minute=6 degrees. 5 mins=30 and 15 mins (3:00) =full value 90 deg of wind.



Also the wind correction from a 9 oclock wind vs a 7 oclock wind is 50 %. 300 grain at 2800 fps, 20 mph wind, at 1k.....9:00 wind = 8.8 min.... 7 oclack wind = 4.4 min....50 % A 6:30 wind needs 3.7 moa, or 42% of full value.
7:00 wind equals 1/3 value tail wind left to right.
 
If you can't read the wind well enough to detect a shift from 6:39-6:00 and then to 5:30 etc you aren't going to hit anything beyond 600yds anyhow.

The quick way to read wind accurately is to use essentially a clock face.

The 12:00hr clock represents how many minutes? One full rotation of the minute hand = 60 mins correct?

How many degrees are in a circle? 360 right?

Divide 360/60 and what do you get?

6 deg0 correct?

So using the clock face how many degrees does 5 minutes of wind equate to?

Plug that 30degrees into your shooting solution and pull the trigger.

I make it even simpler figuring a 30 degree wind as 1/3 of the full value wind correction and pull the trigger.

At best all wind corrections in the field are going to be nothing but the best approximation you can come up with because as I explained wind will rarely be consistent over the full flight of the bullet especially if you are dealing with anything other than perfectly flat terrain.

Shoot, learn, repeat. Shoot, learn, repeat.

The best advice I ever got on long range shooting came from the best natural shot I have ever known, "Don't be afraid to miss, until you've missed a lot you won't learn how to make the critical shots when the time comes".

Once you have done a lot of practicing you will "feel it" when the shot is right and know it when it's not.

If the wind is shifting then you are going to have to use all of your down range cues to time the shot for when the wind is where you need it to be for the corrections you have figured and set up for.

Shooting is at least as much of an art as it is a science and it just takes a lot of time and practice to make it as easy as some people make it sound.
Corrected.
 
You are saying that a 7:00 wind needs 1/3 value (33%)....or 2.91 MOA in the above situation.. Both of my balistics programs say 1/2 value (50%)....or 4.4 moa for a 7:00 wind ....

Full value being 8.8 MOA That is a BIG difference.

Who is right?

Again......

Bullit.....300 gr Berger Hybrid....2800 FPS

20 mph wind @1000 yards.

Full value...8.8 MOA...9:00 wind according to both my Sierra I6 and Shooter programs.

I am just trying to figure out if I am getting a garbage in, garbage out situation with my programs.

Thanks,

Tod
 
You are saying that a 7:00 wind needs 1/3 value (33%)....or 2.91 MOA in the above situation.. Both of my balistics programs say 1/2 value (50%)....or 4.4 moa for a 7:00 wind ....

Full value being 8.8 MOA That is a BIG difference.

Who is right?

Again......

Bullit.....300 gr Berger Hybrid....2800 FPS

20 mph wind @1000 yards.

Full value...8.8 MOA...9:00 wind according to both my Sierra I6 and Shooter programs.

I am just trying to figure out if I am getting a garbage in, garbage out situation with my programs.

Thanks,

Tod
What do they give you for a 7:30 wind? I would figure that a a half value wind since it's right at 45 deg?

I suspect some of the variation is coming from your programs also figuring in spin drift etc.

My ballistics calculator is still a pencil. I use a couple of online calculators for rough data but that's it.
 
Another little lesson in wind yesterday. Wind here has been horrible the past few days. In the morning I worked up some loads for the 6.5 in a semi protected area and finally got a .25MOA group at 200. Ran out of time to take Ami and mom for a four wheeler so called that group and load good.

Later the wind was blowing up to 20 in the valleys and gusty from 8-15. Found a decent spot on a hill, just over the break, and ranged a rock at 1200. Wind was 8 right to left and blowing away at 45 (from my back to the left). The rock was in a valley below us at -4 degrees. Shooter says 1.6 moa right. First round missed the rock and I noticed the dusty going to the right. Well crap. Then the wind cycled and blew straight away, cycled again and blew hard left. Sent another round with half the MOA, hit right side of rock about 15" off center. Impact dusty went right again. Oh geez louise. Switched tactics 1 MOA left, instead of right, 3 shots killed the rock. Put Ami on it, 1 shot right, next shot dead rock.

Stupid wind. I am learning though. I really did not think the wind would change down there that much if at all. We went to the rock the wind was blowing left to right and slighty away.
 
My I6 program does not figure spin drift...I checked and the numbers are the same for both LH and RH winds. I shut that off, along with the coriolls function on my Shooter program when I did the calcs, so spin drift and coriolls, although real, are not figured into these numbers. Obviously They would be in a real shooting situation.


I checked the 7:30 wind as you asked....7.2 moa, or 82% of a full value 9:00 wind.

I aways used 75% as a "rule of thumb" for the 45 degree (7:30) wind before I had any apps that I could use in the field.

They sure have changed how I think about the wind!!!
 
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