How do you explain….custom rifles?

[RuninL8]

It all depends on what you are using the rifle for. I build custom rifles for all types of customers, for some its a dream gun, for some a custom hunt, and most want an extremely reliable 1000+ yard rifle. I also probably tell 50% of my customers for what they are wanting to do, a factory savage rifle will make a 5 inch group at 300 yards 90% of the time. I try to be honest with people. Most hunters will rarely take more than a 300 yard shot, I get calls from all over the country and I always ask what's your furthest shot and without fail, it's under 300 yards. Now, I realize am speaking on a long range forum, but for most 300 is long range......why don't most people feel comfortable going beyond? Because they don't have the equipment they are confident in to go futher and to practice futher, thats when I come in with custom rifle. Everyone has goals with a rifle and OPINIONS, I do my best to sort out the facts.

 

[mercerbear]

This is a challenge for me. Factory rifles with load development can shoot quite well. 1 moa is quite common. 1/2 moa or close seems like it is becoming more common.

Factory stocks are becoming crappier and better at the top end. This is a pretty good reason to go full custom.

Otherwise, I feel like rational people think I'm a bit bonkers. I talk about things like case to die to chamber fit being nearly perfect, stock dimensions being a near perfect fit, optics clear enough to really see at lower magnifications.

All that said, I shot my friends Savage package gun in 6.5 creedmor and my only real complaints were:
-stock was not a good fit
-scope was forward and couldn't move
-windage turret moved 0.75 moa with 1 click(1/4 moa turret)
-glass was just ok/usable

Our results were pretty good. Quick sight in at 100, 1.4moa 200yd group, 300 yd 2 moa steel hits. Not bad.

Then we talk about my new rifle. Everything is better, but for what? How do I explain the value of it? Not to justify. I want it, I earned it, it solves my issues from previous experience. I get that, but why are custom rifles worth 5-10 times to price? Or are they a bad deal? The value is definitely low when sold as used.

I ask, really just to generate interest from people who don't connect with the idea immediately.

These are simply economic decisions.

Everyone has limited resources and has to decide how to use those resources.

 

[richhymas]

Gee whiz, I would like to find a few of those factory 1/2 to 1 moa factory rifles. I seem to to always get the 1.5 to 2 moa or worse ones. You guys must get all of the good ones.

These are factory guns with hand loads. The savage model 12 they sell at Cabelas for under $500 is a real shooter. The stock os cheap, the mag is cheap, the action is cheap, but the gun really shoots tight groups with hand loads. I have owned several calibers. That said, I built my first custom gun and as long as I have the money I will do it again even if the 100 yard group is the same. The gun feels more secure with precision components. I don't want the bolt to wiggle or the magazine to rattle or jam. I want the stock to feel rock solid. That's what you are paying for. And with a hand lapped barrel you will have less fowling and better extreme spread which will translate to better accuracy down range beyond 300 yards.

edit- to clarify, I can get this gun to shoot 1/2-3/4 MOA pretty easily.

 

[Bigdog425]

Gee whiz, I would like to find a few of those factory 1/2 to 1 moa factory rifles. I seem to to always get the 1.5 to 2 moa or worse ones. You guys must get all of the good ones.

I have many stock and semi-custom rifles and only 2 will shoot sub MOA at distance consistently (with reloading…and tested with different shooters)…add the dedicated hunters / shooters I associate with and the numbers don't go up much. Looking at the targets at the nearby range, I rarely see one in the MOA range. Can't say it doesn't happen as a friend has an old 270 that will consistently shoot sub MOA at distance with factory ammo. However, I think such rifles are more rare it may appear. Check out NRA magazine or most other magazines that test new rifles. Their tests rarely show sub-MOA results…and they don't test at distance. Like many other things the "winners" get talked about and posted while people rarely bother to discuss average or sub MOA groupings. Hence, we read about the ones worth posting.
To those who have such rifles, congrats on your find and your work to wring out the best they can be.
As to the chase for better performance, custom or not, it's fun to keep working to find even little improvements. Whether it's 2 MOA to 1.5 or from 1 to 1/2, improvement always brings a smile.

 

[PAGSDIII701]

Gee whiz, I would like to find a few of those factory 1/2 to 1 moa factory rifles. I seem to to always get the 1.5 to 2 moa or worse ones. You guys must get all of the good ones.

Kimber Mountain Ascent…BEST Factory Rifle I've shot

 

[rustyshackleford]

These are simply economic decisions.

Everyone has limited resources and has to decide how to use those resources.

That may be the case for some people but I'm pretty happy when I can buy off the shelf. If they don't make what you want though you have to go aftermarket. I don't think most people go custom to flaunt money

 

[JAYgs8163]

Too many reasons to list why or how. This could be a book, The Custom Rifle".

Here's one, Just sent a "newer" factory rifle back for the second time across the country for repair. $60 shipping each time.

One more, I get exactly what I WANT. Twist rate, barrel length, best trigger available. Find a factory rifle with that special twist rate to shoot the heavies. ie Berger 6mm 115 EOL, recommended twist rate 7 or faster. Go find a 7 twist factory rifle in 6 Creed, 243, etc...

Another, now I can do just about all of it myself and get the satisfaction of building it. Tolerances are so repeatable on a Custom Action we now have Prefit Shouldered barrels. I own a few custom rifles but I'm building myself, my first custom now. I will assemble everything, skim bed myself, "Duracoat" the barreled action. 18" 308 and also have a 7-08 barrel that's 24" I can screw right on. Now it's becoming much more affordable. MacBros actions now are $595. TriggerTech $119-129, Prefit shouldered barrel or barrel nut barrel $450-500 and up, bottom metal $129-150, Grayboe Stock $300-600. Patience required to final fit everything-priceless.

Anyways, I could go on and on.

 

[7MMMagnum]

Gee whiz, I would like to find a few of those factory 1/2 to 1 moa factory rifles. I seem to to always get the 1.5 to 2 moa or worse ones. You guys must get all of the good ones.

I agree with you on this one. Time and time again I see manufacturers that guarantee 1 moa accuracy for their factory made rifle. I am like you, I always seem to get the bad ones. I end up doing bedding jobs or whatever it takes but seldom do they ever live up to that 1 moa hype consistently. Now custom, your talking a whole different level of accuracy, at least in my experience.

 

[PAGSDIII701]

I agree with you on this one. Time and time again I see manufacturers that guarantee 1 moa accuracy for their factory made rifle. I am like you, I always seem to get the bad ones. I end up doing bedding jobs or whatever it takes but seldom do they ever live up to that 1 moa hype consistently. Now custom, your talking a whole different level of accuracy, at least in my experience.

My Kimber is SUB-MOA

 

[7MMMagnum]

Gee whiz, I would like to find a few of those factory 1/2 to 1 moa factory rifles. I seem to to always get the 1.5 to 2 moa or worse ones. You guys must get all of the good ones.

I agree with you there. Manufacturers guarantee 1 moa in a lot of cases but I must always get the bad ones. I always end up doing stock work and bedding or whatever it takes to make them shoot 1 moa consistently. Have several customs and this work is done for you plus you get a quality barrel, chamber and stock to boot. Shoot 1/2 moa consistently. I personally believe you get what you pay for in rifles, scopes and any hunting equipment.

 

[Carlos88]

I believe any facet of firearms has its share of those who think stock just isn't good, enough. Wargdog mentioned big bore handguns. There are persons in that community that patiently wait FIVE YEARS for a gun from so and so. I've waited a couple of years for a gun that like most custom rifles will outshoot me. AR's are just AR's to me no matter what they cost. My GA 338 is a beautiful beast. My Harton five shot 38 spl stainless single six is a work of art.

Harton=great quality. I've handled a couple of them and they are TOP shelf. Awesome revolvers.

 

[biff's reloading]

Some guys blow money on hotrods and racecars, some do meth. I like guns

 

[nealm66]

I've had incredible good luck with factory rifles. Enough to make a very hard argument against paying the $ for a custom. But…. Cmon, who hasn't drooled over some of those pics. You know the ones I'm talking about.

 

[Finsta]

This is a challenge for me. Factory rifles with load development can shoot quite well. 1 moa is quite common. 1/2 moa or close seems like it is becoming more common.

Factory stocks are becoming crappier and better at the top end. This is a pretty good reason to go full custom.

Otherwise, I feel like rational people think I'm a bit bonkers. I talk about things like case to die to chamber fit being nearly perfect, stock dimensions being a near perfect fit, optics clear enough to really see at lower magnifications.

All that said, I shot my friends Savage package gun in 6.5 creedmor and my only real complaints were:
-stock was not a good fit
-scope was forward and couldn't move
-windage turret moved 0.75 moa with 1 click(1/4 moa turret)
-glass was just ok/usable

Our results were pretty good. Quick sight in at 100, 1.4moa 200yd group, 300 yd 2 moa steel hits. Not bad.

Then we talk about my new rifle. Everything is better, but for what? How do I explain the value of it? Not to justify. I want it, I earned it, it solves my issues from previous experience. I get that, but why are custom rifles worth 5-10 times to price? Or are they a bad deal? Ok The value is definitely low when sold as used.

I ask, really just to generate interest from people who don't connect with the idea immediately.

Sounds to me like you would only be satisfied with a custom rifle and accurate dies for your cases. At the very least a Deluxe rifle. Personally my standards are likely lower than yours. If I get under an inch consistently with reloads or factory ammo I'm satisfied. But I won't shoot at an animal past 400. One thing I can't digest are the cheap stocks and magazines. Even though some are accurate, I like a solid bolt,not some floating bolt head. So no, your not bonkers. And the proportionally lower resale value of a custom is a reasonable consideration . After having issues with a couple of Deluxe (even though I love them), I'd like to try custom . I still may get one or two more Deluxes, but I figure I won't go wrong with a custom. Depends how particular you need to be to be satisfied. Just an opinion. One more thing: get a decent scope for your rig. I'm not of the school that has to pay more for a scope than your rifle(or as much). I put $400-$700 Leupold or Zeiss scopes(duplex reticles up to 10 power) on my rifles . But again I won't attempt more than 400 yard shots. If I get into long range shooting , then a BDC reticle should be good to 600. Anything longer and then I would get into $1500- $2000 minimum FFP scopes. Besides, my aging eyes would need all the help they can get.