How about those speer bullets?

[savagelover]

I have ask this question on other sights and never got any replies,which I thought strange....I read about all the other match grade bullets except for the Speer's.

I shoot the Hornady and Sierra with good results..And while looking through my cupboard I came across a box of 190 gr match Speer bullets...I guess I forgot I had them..I got to thinking then,that they are very seldom mentioned..

So the next time I go to the club,I plan on trying a few of them...So if anyone has tried any of them I would be interested in hearing about it..Thanks..John

 

[Engineering101]

Interesting question. I have a Speer reloading manual and a few boxes of very old bullets. The Speer manual is on the bottom of the pile and only gets pulled out when I'm working all the angles for a load that is pretty much never for a Speer. Their bullets just are not very interesting or modern. I think I have their latest manual, #14, and it came out in 2007 and while not as old as Sierras, it is getting dated. Hornady, Nosler and Berger all have brand new manuals out. Speer still uses lead tips which tend to get mashed in the magazine when subjected to recoil. It would never occur to me to actually use a Speer bullet. But that is just me, others may and probably do have a different view.

 

[jkupper]

I tried some Speer's out of my 243. I picked them up at a garage sale as they were mixed in with some other brass and bullets that I wanted. I tried several different loads, but I could not get better than a 3" group with a gun that shoots 87 gr Hornady's in half inch groups. I have never tried them again, just used them to fire form brass after that. That's just my experience though. Other's may have done better.

 

[rick523]

I picked up a box of 95gr to try in my 243 also wish I got a 3" group in a word they "SUCK" JMO.

 

[savagelover]

good replies,and thanks...They must be selling or it seems they would be out of business? I am going to load some of the 190 gr. match I have here and see how the work out of my 308...But I suppose a fair test has to be done with them like I have with the other brands...I have tried Bergers with nothing to brag about until I found the majic O,A,L for them...Johngun)

 

[Trickymissfit]

I've shot many Speer bullets in the past with pretty good results just like the other brands. When your looking at 3" groups in a 6mm something, you need to be looking at barrel twist. There is no 95 grain bullet listed in my manual, but there is an 85 grain bullet with a .40 B/C. That's gonna have to have a true 1:9 twist barrel instead of somebody stamped on it. I had trouble with Bergers that had a .38 B/C with a nine twist barrel (well they claimed it was). The 190 grain bullet is listed as having a .54 B/C, and you should know upfront that your not gonna make it shoot well in a slower twist barrel. Plus your barrel may not like them anyway, but that dosn't mean the bullet is bad. The only Speer bullets that I just couldn't make shoot well in any barrel (all were 14 twist) was their 52 grain bullets, and I might add that Sierras and Hornadays would shoot well either.
gary

 

[rick523]

Trickymissfit
Well my bad, I didn't want to walk outside to my office this morn since it was pouring down rain so I was going off top of my head on weight, just went and looked they are 100 grain boat tails and they didn't work for me. It's been a couple of years ago when I tried them you know what they say memory is first thing to go. Now I gotta go shake off.
Rifle is a 10 twist.

 

[jkupper]

Mine were the 75 gr. HP's, and to be fair I didn't give them a great deal of attention because I had already found a good load with the Hornady's. My gun has a 1:9 twist. Good luck!

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

I've shot speer a good bit and they are for the most part good bullets. Some are tough to get to shoot, but their TNT bullets are some of the most accurate "soft" bullets I've ever seen. We even got the 70 tnt to shoot under 1 moa in a savage 243 that the factory screwed up on and put it together with a 25 caliber barrel. Yep, they were obdurating AND accurate in the next bore up. The only speer I'm actively loading at present is the 120 grain 25 cal bt for my 25 wssm. It'll do 1/2 moa of you do your part, and 1/4 moa if it wants to.
I put a few 270 bt speer through my rem. 375 H@H that I had left on the shelf for over ten years from my first 375. I stuffed a good bit of I 4320 under them, and proceeded to shoot a no load developement .3" group with an 8# 375h@h at 100 yards. It's the best group from the pipe so far, but this rifle is a solid sub moa performer with barnes, and I have plenty of the 300 tsx loaded.

 

[Trickymissfit]

Trickymissfit
Well my bad, I didn't want to walk outside to my office this morn since it was pouring down rain so I was going off top of my head on weight, just went and looked they are 100 grain boat tails and they didn't work for me. It's been a couple of years ago when I tried them you know what they say memory is first thing to go. Now I gotta go shake off.
Rifle is a 10 twist.

I had two 6mm barrels a few years back, and they were both from the same folks, and were said to have the same twist rate. But one was about 2/3rds of an inch faster twist rate than the other! Yet neither barrel was the claimed 1:9 twist rate. One was about 1:9.5 and the other was actually slightly slower than 1:10. Never really noticed this much till I started to climb the B/C chain. Yes I could have cussed Walt Berger, and been done with it, but I wanted to know why. That also about the time I learned that not all barrel throats were cut them same for a certain bore size.

I usually think of Speer bullets as hunting bullets, and in most cases they've worked well for me. But really not seriously better than anybody elses, and vise versa. They are not target quality bullets in my opinion. But I've found they are better than most in the big bore lever guns I own (much better). I could also set here and cuss Bitter Root Bullets, but I also know there was nothing wrong with the bullets or construction. They just didn't work well in the barrels I tried them in.

I think most U.S. bullet manufacturers make good bullets, but they don't always work well in our intended applications we put them in.
gary

 

[Trickymissfit]

Mine were the 75 gr. HP's, and to be fair I didn't give them a great deal of attention because I had already found a good load with the Hornady's. My gun has a 1:9 twist. Good luck!

Just looked at the specs for the 75 grain bullet in the Speer manual (have never used these in a 6mm). That bullet has a .23 B/C, and with a 1:9 barrel your way too fast for the B/C. That bullet at 3400 fps (.243) is spinning at about 270K as it leaves the muzzel! The bullet is labled as one of their "TNT" bullets made for varmit hunting. The jackets are fairly thin and will seriously be taxed at that kind of rotational speed! Even at 3000fps the speed will be a little faster than 239K rpm. But the same bullet out of a 1:14 twist barrel would be 175K rpm (3400 fps), and just about right. The over rotation speed of a bullet also tends to spread the group sizes (about 3/32" per .0001 error in the C/G). That error factor also increases as the bullet spins faster.
gary

 

[Trickymissfit]

I've shot speer a good bit and they are for the most part good bullets. Some are tough to get to shoot, but their TNT bullets are some of the most accurate "soft" bullets I've ever seen. We even got the 70 tnt to shoot under 1 moa in a savage 243 that the factory screwed up on and put it together with a 25 caliber barrel. Yep, they were obdurating AND accurate in the next bore up. The only speer I'm actively loading at present is the 120 grain 25 cal bt for my 25 wssm. It'll do 1/2 moa of you do your part, and 1/4 moa if it wants to.
I put a few 270 bt speer through my rem. 375 H@H that I had left on the shelf for over ten years from my first 375. I stuffed a good bit of I 4320 under them, and proceeded to shoot a no load developement .3" group with an 8# 375h@h at 100 yards. It's the best group from the pipe so far, but this rifle is a solid sub moa performer with barnes, and I have plenty of the 300 tsx loaded.

I once had a 6mm that was a rock solid .38" rifle. Not bad, and there was probably another .10" in the group size that could be taken out of it. A guy I made bullet punches for and some other odd looking things gave me a about five hundred 70 grain bullets that were bench rest quality, and used by some well known folks. I tried them in that 6mm, and the groups were all over the place (1:9.5 barrel twist). I just put them on the shelf and forgot them. Later I put together a 6BR with a 14 twist barrel. The barrel was of benchrest quality but the chamber was just OK as the throat was a little too long. I started out shooting in the mid threes with these same bullets, and later got down in the mid twos. There was about 250 fps difference between these two guns, but the 6BR was a 14 twist barrel.
gary

 

[jkupper]

Just looked at the specs for the 75 grain bullet in the Speer manual (have never used these in a 6mm). That bullet has a .23 B/C, and with a 1:9 barrel your way too fast for the B/C. That bullet at 3400 fps (.243) is spinning at about 270K as it leaves the muzzel! The bullet is labled as one of their "TNT" bullets made for varmit hunting. The jackets are fairly thin and will seriously be taxed at that kind of rotational speed! Even at 3000fps the speed will be a little faster than 239K rpm. But the same bullet out of a 1:14 twist barrel would be 175K rpm (3400 fps), and just about right. The over rotation speed of a bullet also tends to spread the group sizes (about 3/32" per .0001 error in the C/G). That error factor also increases as the bullet spins faster.
gary

Thanks! Now I know why they didn't want to shoot. I wasn't too worried about it at the time, because I already had a load. It was just something that I thought I would try out because I got some for almost nothing.

 

[Trickymissfit]

Thanks! Now I know why they didn't want to shoot. I wasn't too worried about it at the time, because I already had a load. It was just something that I thought I would try out because I got some for almost nothing.

Walt Berger once told me that 179K rpm was about right (on impact) for most of the VLD bullets, but he didn't explain the twist rates to me. I chased my tail for about a year and a half till Ferris Pindell told what I was doing wrong. Every barrel has a sweet spot for the B/C it likes just like the throat has one as well.
gary