Help? What should I do?

Muddyboots

Well-Known Member
LRH Team Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2013
Messages
2,900
Location
Michigan
This unfortunate incident is a really good heads up on how to deal with a company when there is a potential product safety defect. I know all good intentions just to get the rifle replaced but whenever you give up the product back to the manufacturer, you have lost leverage and evidence. I am not an attorney nor do I know if this list is all inclusive or even if legal requirements have been met under any circumstance but this is what I would do if I had a firearm product safety related incident.
IMHO:
  1. Document date, time and place, weather included.
  2. Get statements from witnesses if any.
  3. Photograph everything involved.
  4. Document any injuries and any treatment rendered. Even if it was "just a scratch" I would have it looked at by a medical professional to document the extent and treatment. Obviously photographs of injuries are absolutely necessary.
  5. Identify every component involved in the incident, manufacturer, model, serial numbers, age,modifications etc. Identify and photograph gun case used for transport as well.
  6. Ammunition whether factory or reloads. Yes, I am well aware of reloads and warranties but that is for an attorney to provide actual legal guidance on. Internet attorneys are just that, internet so it must be true.
  7. Purchasing records are important especially if warranties are involved or even if you want a replacement.
  8. Document evaluation by an "expert" for the product to confirm condition such as a "certified" gunsmith.
  9. Consult with an attorney that specializes in product safety even if it is a telephone call to determine validity of potential claim or replacement.
  10. I would depend upon the attorney to provide guidance on return of the rifle to insure I have still leverage and control.
  11. When in doubt, photograph it!
I know this is looks like a royal PITA but you have invested a lot of money into a rifle and IF there is a product defect you should have it replaced or even compensated for it. Just MHO.
 

Hecouldgoalltheway

Well-Known Member
LRH Team Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2020
Messages
1,061
Location
Tennessee
This unfortunate incident is a really good heads up on how to deal with a company when there is a potential product safety defect. I know all good intentions just to get the rifle replaced but whenever you give up the product back to the manufacturer, you have lost leverage and evidence. I am not an attorney nor do I know if this list is all inclusive or even if legal requirements have been met under any circumstance but this is what I would do if I had a firearm product safety related incident.
IMHO:
  1. Document date, time and place, weather included.
  2. Get statements from witnesses if any.
  3. Photograph everything involved.
  4. Document any injuries and any treatment rendered. Even if it was "just a scratch" I would have it looked at by a medical professional to document the extent and treatment. Obviously photographs of injuries are absolutely necessary.
  5. Identify every component involved in the incident, manufacturer, model, serial numbers, age,modifications etc. Identify and photograph gun case used for transport as well.
  6. Ammunition whether factory or reloads. Yes, I am well aware of reloads and warranties but that is for an attorney to provide actual legal guidance on. Internet attorneys are just that, internet so it must be true.
  7. Purchasing records are important especially if warranties are involved or even if you want a replacement.
  8. Document evaluation by an "expert" for the product to confirm condition such as a "certified" gunsmith.
  9. Consult with an attorney that specializes in product safety even if it is a telephone call to determine validity of potential claim or replacement.
  10. I would depend upon the attorney to provide guidance on return of the rifle to insure I have still leverage and control.
  11. When in doubt, photograph it!
I know this is looks like a royal PITA but you have invested a lot of money into a rifle and IF there is a product defect you should have it replaced or even compensated for it. Just MHO.
This is great advice, and in hindsight, would have been a good road to follow. I mistakingly believe most folks are like me, and someone there would have a look at it and send me a new one, or replace the busted parts and ship it back out. I rely on other people to see the world the way I see it. It has bitten us all in the butt I'm sure..
 

Muddyboots

Well-Known Member
LRH Team Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2013
Messages
2,900
Location
Michigan
This is great advice, and in hindsight, would have been a good road to follow. I mistakingly believe most folks are like me, and someone there would have a look at it and send me a new one, or replace the busted parts and ship it back out. I rely on other people to see the world the way I see it. It has bitten us all in the butt I'm sure..
I may have done the same thing thinking it is straight forward and they would replace it quickly. I truly don't understand the delay unless they are truly investigating the metallurgical aspect of the rifle which can take significant time. It IS NOT as easy as one would think to determine the cause of a product defect or failure. They are not the same! I bet they are treading very lightly to insure they know for certainty what the cause may have been before they commit a response back to you. But the lack of communications is NOT Acceptable IMHO. There are a lot of things they can say back to you even as simply "we are investigating the incident" without any further commitment.
 

Hecouldgoalltheway

Well-Known Member
LRH Team Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2020
Messages
1,061
Location
Tennessee
I may have done the same thing thinking it is straight forward and they would replace it quickly. I truly don't understand the delay unless they are truly investigating the metallurgical aspect of the rifle which can take significant time. It IS NOT as easy as one would think to determine the cause of a product defect or failure. They are not the same! I bet they are treading very lightly to insure they know for certainty what the cause may have been before they commit a response back to you. But the lack of communications is NOT Acceptable IMHO. There are a lot of things they can say back to you even as simply "we are investigating the incident" without any further commitment.
I was pretty peeved when the guy told me that they turned my case over to their legal department in Febuary, and when calling in mid July, they had never attempted to contact me, or make any attempt at resolution. There is a zero% chance that the legal department has had it for 6 months and they haven't been able to make some sort of decision. The only reasonable excuse for this is if they made a bad product and they are preparing for a huge class action lawsuit that they know is coming. If it's damage control because they know they screwed up, then it makes sense. It doesn't make good customer service, but it probably makes good sense for them legally. If that is not the case, then there is no good excuse. If they had just picked up the phone and called me at any point since early Jan, I would have happily signed whatever waiver they wanted me to in exchange for a refund or a new rifle. I'm easy to do business with. I'm never looking for a free lunch. Not contacting me is the real error.
 

Bob Wright

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2018
Messages
1,491
Location
Litchfield Park, Az.
Should I threaten to sue then? Is that what you are insinuating? And then sue if they balk? God I'd hate to have to go that route, but it may be the only avenue they've left for me..
Don't even mention a lawsuit. They will shut down completely.
Just keep correspondence going and records. While your waiting, start researching to see if there are numerous complaints, results etc. If your armed with enough data, present that to company.
You may have contacted them here, but if not try this:

 

Muddyboots

Well-Known Member
LRH Team Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2013
Messages
2,900
Location
Michigan
There is one other avenue to consider which is to file a Code of Ethics violation with Beretta Fabrique. Companies do take these seriously and may get the attention of Upper Management. Corporate bonuses are tied to many business performance parameters and this is typically one of them so they get attention at the highest level.
LINK: Beretta Code of Ethics
 

Muddyboots

Well-Known Member
LRH Team Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2013
Messages
2,900
Location
Michigan
The way I see it, they are making no effort to respond. I would suggest sending them a letter certified mail return receipt requesting immediate replacement of the rifle. Include all details of returning the rifle per their process, dates of calls, who you talked with if you have the info. I would include a statement that requires a response within 10 days of documented receipt of the letter.

This drives a stake in the ground they cannot ignore. If they do, I think I would also consider filing complaint with Maryland AG. You have been more than cooperative and patient so what else can you do except to bring regulatory pressure? Either CPSC or Maryland AG or both? If they were going to respond, they would have done so by now. Not even s courtesy communication is not acceptable on any level IMO.

LINK: Maryland AG
 

antelopedundee

Well-Known Member
LRH Sponsor
Joined
Oct 14, 2018
Messages
1,251
Location
Iowa
A very similar thing happened to me with my Ruger.
Sounds like you had an obstruction in the barrel and a squib on round 4 would be suspect or did you clean after round 4. Do you still have your target to verify your holes since you know it was catastrophic failure on round 5?
The squib would be on Hornady and not Tikka. It defies common sense that a rifle would just blow up.

If you shot a number of rounds through it on several occasions and nothing happened how could it be defective enough to blow up? Seems to me that if it was defective that it should have blown up earlier.

Once you knew there was an obstruction you could have measured the distance to the blockage from both ends to determine if there was one bullet or 2 lodged in the barrel. I'd send them a certified [return requested] letter saying that if they determined that they aren't at fault then please return my rifle.
 
Last edited:

milo-2

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 1, 2011
Messages
1,253
Location
Gillette, Wy
I literally ejected that casing after the incident, so yeah, it is the one. I'm sorry my barrel didn't split like a loony toons cartoon to meet your definition of "blowing up a gun". If it had been in your hands, you'd have used the same terminology I'm sure.
Actually NO I would not. I had an out of battery in a series 70 1911, due to a condition like glock bulge with a reload.
Technically, not once did I say it blew up the gun. It was apparent the case blew out, and yes, my right hand stung to from escaping gases down the magazine and out the grips. And yes, it scared me, plus it took me over 4yrs to pinpoint what went wrong in my reloading practices.
That said, you have every right to call it what you may, I just thought you over represented it to a degree, and as in my situation, you blew a case out, not blow up a gun.
I also hope you get this matter ironed out.
 

Coldfinger

Well-Known Member
LRH Team Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2020
Messages
1,048
Location
NY
Sorry to hear that. Here is my humble opinion.
Call back and try to talk to a supervisor. Try a few times. Sometimes, a supervisor can help.
Do not threaten legal action unless you are ready to follow through. It will cost more than your rifle and they know it.
If you don get anywhere, then go on every shooting forum, hunting forum, sporting forum that will let you tell your story. Post pictures. Court of public opinion has a lot of power.

I had a brand new rifle blow a barrel. Sig was extremely helpful, send me a box, I sent it to them, they could not determine it was a faulty barrel, so they replaced it for $100 including shipping both ways. I was ecstatic with their service.

Good luck
I can say right now that ****ing on just one customer is enough to keep me from ever buying a Tikka or Beretta!!! With the massive salaries of they’re CEO’s and board of directors they can’t remedy the situation by simply replacing the damaged firearm, get real most folks work hard for the money to purchase firearms or components which is free advertising for the manufacturers as well!!!!!
 

Coldfinger

Well-Known Member
LRH Team Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2020
Messages
1,048
Location
NY
I told the guy on the phone last week that if they were worried about me suing, then they should have had their legal department reach me at any time in the last 6 months and I would sign a waiver or whatever they wanted me to, because I just wanted my gun back. I'll sign a release of liability or whatever they want if they will fix my gun. I've never personally sued anyone in my life, and have no interest in doing so. I just want my little accurate rifle back in working order. I hate corporations.
I’d also be contacting the ammunition manufacturer. It’s not the first time I’ve heard of 17 hmr problems.
 
Top