Heavy hardcast lead for bear?

[Vortex!]

I have some 500 gr lead hardcast bullets that I'd like to hunt with but I'm not sure if they'll do the job well or not. Shooting them out of my 45-70 lever chiappa 1886 replication. I'm not looking at pushing them faster than about 1100 fps or so. Much faster and it kicks like a mule as well as breaks the sound barrier resulting in a louder boom.
Do y'all think I'm loco for trying this or will it do well on black bears out to 150 yards? I'd like to use it on deer as well.

 

[cohunt]

The bigger the meplat the better they work--- I like wfn hardcast

If subsonic--- the heavier the better but you limit your results and hunting distance by going subsonic

 

[Vortex!]

Would this size meplat work when going through bone or does that not make much difference?
Weren't the old buffalo loads from years ago black powder and subsonic or am I misinformed?
Thanks for the feedback.

 

[cohunt]

People used to hunt with patched ball too, but you must remember the limitations of the round you are hunting with. People used to hunt out of necessity, now we are sportsmen.

I'm not saying it won't work-- a wfn will disrupt more than a round nose ( this is proven) but put a bullet in the vitals and the animal will die-- some just take longer to do that given the specific limitations.

 

[Vortex!]

Gotcha, thanks!

 

[cohunt]

Gotcha, thanks!

I'm not knocking your choice, but you have to be comfortable with the bullet/velocity you are choosing to use. In the end, you are the one making the decisions for your hunting set up.

It will work, but it wouldn't be my first choice if I had other options. A 45/70 is no joke on any animal- it's a pretty big hole even if it's a non expanding hard cast. I definitely wouldn't want to be shot by one.

You need to check your local regs though, in CO you must use expanding bullets for big game.

 

[xsn10s]

I haven't taken bears with my 45-70 but I read up quite a bit before going to Alaska. In hardcast bullets whether it was 44 mag to 45-70 the bigger the metplat the better was the general consensus. Pretty much what cohunt said. My understanding it cut a bigger hole giving the bear less chance of sealing the wound channel. I chose a 350 round nose exposed lead Hornady because I was hunting caribou and wanted something hopefully good enough for bear protection. If hunting purely bear I'd pick a big metplat hardcast. YMMV

 

[Vortex!]

Part of the trouble for me is that bear rifle season is in several weeks and it's hard to pick up moulds at a decent price these days. If you can find them in stock. If pushing them faster makes it a lot better, I could do that. It's gonna hurt on both ends then though.

 

[cohunt]

When hunting- I've never felt the recoil-- at the range its a different ballgame

You could try one of the guys that sells hardcast to see what they have in stock-- call Bruce at Montana bullet works

 

[Vortex!]

Thanks.

 

[calling4life]

500gr at 1100 fps is 1343ft/lbs, it's good handgun numbers, and so it wouldn't be out of line to think of it along those lines.

Realize that at any distance this is going to be like shooting an arrow, it'll just do the damage and make a hole the size of the bullet.

Meaning you need to hit the lungs and/or heart or the track will be horrible and long, stay away from bone.

Now, if a bear charges you, with the sectional density and muzzle velocity, she shouldn't have issues breaking forehead and reaching brain.

At 50 yards or further I'd be treating it like I was shooting a bow though, precision being incredibly important. So, behind bone and into heart/lungs.

Oh, another thing, use your repeater, meaning, shoot, rack that son of a gun, shoot, rack it, shoot, rack it shoot.

That slug shouldn't be busting up and throwing lead everywhere, you shouldn't find that you have to cut a bunch of meat out and throw it away at the slower velocity, so I'd put shots into it until it was dead. But, especially at that 50+ yard range, I'd be looking to get multiple bullets in the animal if possible, the extra bullets don't have to be perfect shots if that first shot is good.

If the first shot is bad, you need to do everything you can to get a good shot in it quickly.

If you run your specific ballistics you may find that my 50+ yard threshold is actually a 70+ or 100+ yard threshold for you, given your specific velocity and energy at said ranges, given the information I have here, 50 yards sounds about right to me and I'd rather be safe than sorry.

So miss bone and hit the lungs/heart past 50 yards.

 

[DMP25-06]

I would send a Personal Message to Dean2 , a member here on Long Range Hunting , and ask his opinion if your .45-70 cartridge with 500gr HC at your chosen velocity should be adequate for Bear hunting .
He has experience hunting Bears , both Black Bear and Grizzly , using Hard-Cast lead bullets .

Also , a thread from March , 2021 , titled "45-70 , 45-90 , or 450 Marlin", started by Tac-O , another LRH member , had information on using Hard-cast bullets , with Dean2 contributing several posts at that time .

DMP25-06

 

[Dean2]

I have some 500 gr lead hardcast bullets that I'd like to hunt with but I'm not sure if they'll do the job well or not. Shooting them out of my 45-70 lever chiappa 1886 replication. I'm not looking at pushing them faster than about 1100 fps or so. Much faster and it kicks like a mule as well as breaks the sound barrier resulting in a louder boom.
Do y'all think I'm loco for trying this or will it do well on black bears out to 150 yards? I'd like to use it on deer as well.View attachment 310028

It will work perfectly on black bear. Millions of Bison were killed with a 500 grain bullet at 1100 to 1200 fps and they are a hell of a lot bigger and tougher than a bear. You will almost never require a second shot on any black bear you hit with this load. People who have only shot modern rounds do not understand how lethal a big bore round is at anything over 1000 fps. Velocity affects the trajectory but is has no effect on the killing power of these cartridges. My belief is you will get a complete pass through at whatever range you shoot it. The army tested 500 grain 45 70 at 2 miles back in the 1860s or so and it would penetrate oak wood barricades. Go shoot a bear and let me know what u think. I will bet dollars to donuts you will be amazed at the smackdown it provides.

 

[Longcruise]

I realize you are in a time squeeze, but if possible or for future reference, try a 405 with a bit wider meplat. Your penetration will be good and the wound channel a bit wider.

Further, you can run it faster without more shoulder pain. Also improved trajectory.

And, FWIW, black bears aren't real tough die hards.