Hammer hype?

[Quintus]

I have also had no issues with the TSX/TTSX. I load them for 9 different calibers and over a dozen rifles from .223 to 338RUM. I have always found them to be very easy to get to shoot well to 400 yards (partly why I load them for so many peoples rifles) and all I have seen from my own or heard from others is perfect holes and quick death. I am intrigued by the Hammers and their manufacture process. I can see why they would be hard to beat for accuracy. I just can't justify the $$ when there are so many great bullets at half the price. Do you get twice the performance for the nearly double cost?

 

[Winfwt338-06]

Appreciate your work at Barnes btw! I've never used Hammers, my biz partner is fielding some custom ammo in 375 calibers however. No animals down yet but we will see.

as far as Barnes Performance I have zero complaints. Barnes actually sponsored over 9 hunts and independent lab studies for which I provide a pile of data. Mostly confirming what they know, but some new nuggets as well.
Not one animal in all those hunts went more 10 yards, say for one pig that took a 44mag to the rear, "Texas Heart Shot" it went 25y. Bullets recovered in 3 instances. The aforementioned pig, a whitetail, and a 600lb Nilgai Bull. All had 99.5%'ish weight retention. The whitetail was a pass through at 95y with 6.5 CM but the shot was aligned with a tree about 10y begin deer so bullet was recovered. Nilgai are extremely thick skinned animals. The 338LM 280LRX dislodged the animals heart from its "socket" and crushed a lung. Needless to say DRT at 511y.

even bad shots on pigs resulted in DRT's within 5-10y. The bullets just work and work well.
going for a 1000y kill on a blackbuck next at kaianvistaranch soon.

Thanks for your reply great pics! Haven't hog hunted yet but it's on the list

 

[azarcher10x]

Sorry but dead isn't just dead. Sure the animal may have taken its last breath, but what happens from bullet impact to that point can very. My experience with Barnes has been a crap show. Not tons of kills with them, just consistent enough to draw my own conclusions. Early on bullets, shot two whitetail doe behind shoulder (one after another) at under 100 yards with 180 grain from .300WM. They ran...and ran...and ran. Thought I'd made bad shots, nope just didn't expand and very little damage. Next was a newer bullet, the kind with rings on it: 7mm Rem mag, whitetail doe at spitting distance (as in feet). She took off running, I waited a few minutes to start tracking and found small spots of blood where she went into woods, jumped her after a short distance and hit her again with a hard angle (raking) shot, caught up to her several minutes later as she was laying off the side of a well used trail watching me walk by, shot her in the head and that ended that debacle. Swore off their bullets after that.
Some claim that Hammer bullets and Cutting Edge bullets act the same (terminal performance). They may on paper, as in theory, but not what I've seen. Both are supposed to have petals break off and shank continues to penetrates. No comparison in my experience. A buddy and I have several shot animals from deer to elk with high velocity .338s to a .408 Cheytac, near to far. And though exceptionally accurate/precise (whichever you want to call it) out to some really far ranges, the terminal performance was not what I'd call great. These were all with their MTH "hunting" bullet, I haven't shot anything with the Lazer line...yet. Hopefully they have better terminal performance.
Up to this point I just have not been a fan of the mono's performance on game. Sure they will kill, but not as dramatic as most of the cup-n-core bullets I've used. Now come the Hammers, I have been nothing but pleased with their performance (on paper and on game). Besides being consistently the easiest bullets I've ever loaded (in multiple caliber/cartridges, in multiple rifles), a couple buddies and I are nothing but pleased with their performance on game. We have shot several deer and elk with them and never been anything but satisfied with the results. Steve will tell you that he makes bullets for terminal performance first. Are they the magic be all-end all bullet? Nope, no such thing. They are not cheap, as you should expect. Plus their BC is going to be lower than a bullet of comparable weight and caliber, at least what most think of in terms of long range bullets. Steve will also answer a text, phone call, and message on this site in very short order. He will also listen to what you have to say, and buy back or swap bullets if they don't work out in your rifle. Am I a fan so far? Yep! Are they the only bullet/company I use? Nope! I load and shoot bullets by Berger, Nosler, Sierra, Hornady, Speer, etc. Even have a case of core lokt ammo for one of my rifles. Hammer bullets are just a straight up solid option for hunting.

I used Barnes for years with only one hiccup. Right off the bat, a .30 cal/180 gr. for a whitetail doe is way to much bullet. Even for elk, all I shoot is 165 gr. Dropped the last one at 600 no problem. The only one I had trouble with was from the very first batch of TTSX they made. Shot an elk at 400+ from an '06. The bullet didn't expand, and I recovered it. Turns out those bullets were designed strictly for magnums. No issues since. Shot a Coues at 95 yds. a year ago with my RUM. It had full performance even at that range.

 

[GLTaylor]

338-06
I tried Barnes bullets -~20 yrs ago. Got so fed up with copper fouling I quit. Still got 6-7 boxes on the shelf in 6mm, 25, 7mm and 30 cal. Hopefully they are much better now.
I've shot just about all brands and have had good luck with all. Still shoot Bergers and Ballistic tips in some rifles.
In my hunting rifles i have gone exclusively to Hammers. I don't care for all the bloodshot wasted meat with cup and core lead bullets.
Hammers penetrate through and through, good blood trail, consistent performance, no lot to lot variation, very easy to get good loads and very lethal. Couple that with excellent customer service and rapid delivery. Steve is a joy to talk with, very knowledgeable and always has time for your questions.
Yep, guess I'm a Hammer convert. Got Hammer loads for all 5 of my hunting rifles.
Just completed load development for my 338 Sherman. Per your earlier question, try Varget and 205 or 213gr Hammers with Fed 210 in your 338-06. I'm getting 2952 with the 213s at 62 grs. 3/4 MOA at 400 yds.
Regards

 

[Bravo 4]

azarcher,
I'm sure that the problems I had aren't the norm, or they wouldn't be selling them like they do. After I get burned (if you want to call it that, disappointed may be a better word) a couple times by a product or company I tend to hold a grudge and not use their stuff anymore. Life is too short to shoot bad bullets!
Just kidding. When I spend months preparing and thousands of dollars on a hunt, I want equipment I trust. Even hunting near home doesn't really get taken for granted. I can miss entire seasons at a time, haven't killed a deer in 2 years!

 

[DNADave]

I use Barnes in all of my guns, plus other more standard fare. I prefer Barnes bullets so far as they have performed as expected: accurate with minimal meat damage and quick kills (that's my experience at least so far). The only other mono I've used is Peregrine at the recommendation of @WildRose (where is he? I haven't seen him on the forum in a while). Those Peregrin 167gr .308 cal worked great in my .300 Wby and actually had better accuracy than the loads I had for the 168gr TTSX or 175gr LRX.

As for Hammers, I have not used them. I have been impressed with how Steve handles all of the threads on Hammers and it seems his customer service is great (way better than Barnes. Getting them to respond is like pulling teeth). I have only one gripe against Hammer bullets and that is all of my rifles are currently sporting factory barrels. I'm frugal to an extent and don't want to replace a serviceable barrel until it's no longer performing. I have to go to a noticeably lighter bullet in the Hammer line versus Barnes or Peregrine to fit the twist rate in my factory barrels: in my 1:10 .240 Wby I can use an 80gr TTSX versus a 71gr Hammer Hunter. I think if I could get my head wrapped around accepting that difference, I'd give them a try.

 

[Cesky fousek]

Having spent several years working in Barnes ballistics lab and fielding thousands of complaint calls in the early 2000's about no expansion ok'd the X bullet, bullet diameter entry and exit, yet they are telling me about they're dead animal. Back then people didn't realize the X was expanding, petals simply sheared off due to impact velocity, dead is dead right? To make the customers happy, copper composition was adjusted so the TSX would retain 100 percent weight at 25 yds from muzzle in gelatin. Problem solved. Just curious why 20 years later people are willing to pay premium prices for a product they may have tried, and condemned, for poor performance and the Hammer performs exactly like the much earlier X bullet's did, and the Hammer is such an amazing product. I have not used Hammer bullets, wondering if I can be swayed to try them. Thanks in advance

I had the same problem with Barnes so I switch to Lapua Natrualis

 

[Quintus]

azarcher,
I'm sure that the problems I had aren't the norm, or they wouldn't be selling them like they do. After I get burned (if you want to call it that, disappointed may be a better word) a couple times by a product or company I tend to hold a grudge and not use their stuff anymore. Life is too short to shoot bad bullets!
Just kidding. When I spend months preparing and thousands of dollars on a hunt, I want equipment I trust. Even hunting near home doesn't really get taken for granted. I can miss entire seasons at a time, haven't killed a deer in 2 years!

That is just as important as anything, TRUST. That is probably where the true value in the Hammer is. With the way they are manufactured they should be utterly consistent lot to lot and shot to shot. Doubt is not something to take with hunting Marco Polos.

 

[bigngreen]

We started shooting Barnes after I started working for a wild game processor, I got pretty radical about only using them, we shot a lot of game with them, delt with the copper fouling and having to burn a lot of bullets getting a decent load. Every season we'd see stuff that we just chalked up to elk being tough or pour shot placement, even though we are all into accuracy shooting sports we still just though it was us. Had to dispatch a lot of animals, the wound channels through the lungs sometimes were just a small ragged hole with not radiating damage so we put them in the shoulder which was probably over all better but still walking up on animals that just have bone broken but alive. We used the carry 22 lr pistols just to dispatch animals, shooting 25 cal through big 300 mags.
Got an opportunity to help in the taking of a lot of elk a few seasons in open fields where nothing can get away from your sight and we saw about a third of the elk shot in the shoulder with 165 and 168 TSX inside 400 yards fail to penetrate the shoulder and stop or turn and exit the front or go into the side, it really made us think about those ones we just could believe we missed but could not find anything. I've spent days trying to kill a broken shoulder elk out of a group, which also seems to relate to how many elk I used to cut back then with healed shoulders, something I haven't seen in the last 8 years maybe but would see a dozen or so a year when Barnes were what everyone shot.
The issue is that we couldn't run enough weight in the bullet to over come them not shearing of the petals and penetrating, if they opened up so large there just wasn't the momentum left to get that large frontal area through into the vitals every time, bit we had to target the shoulder to get bone and frag to make them more lethal. There were a lot of awesome one and done too but way to many mag dumps trying to stop them also.
I swore of Barnes because the meat quality was great but if I lost one elk thats WAY more meat than loosing a few pounds using a cup and core.
We tested every bullet possible and when we went heavy for cal cup it was instant change, we lost a little more meat but we saw 100% recovery and it was recovery withing feet of where you hit them, we move to shooting everything right behind the shoulder, little meat loss with elk dieing fast with one round, it was a stark change.
I spent a lot of years being a mono supporter so I still kept testing them, Cutting Edge just blew for lethality, stupid accuracy but the smallest wound channels ever and we saw deflections when we tried putting them one bone.
Steve's been on the forum a long time those of use who have been here longer can remember him trying every mono out there and giving excellent feed back. When he started making bullets I figured they'd be made to kill and man they do, only mono I've shot yet that I haven't been able to get it to turn or deflect and it's the only one I have not had to dispatch or shoot an elk twice with. Every elk I've gutted and traced the bullet path has had extensive internal damage around the wound channel, bleeding was heavy all the stuff that kills fast.
On smaller game the Hammer has been stunning how hard it hits, I've seen a couple less than stellar shots but they were lethal and the animal was dead before a second round could be sent, that really makes me like them when they cover your butt a little!!
I continue to shoot TTSX bullets for some things but not elk.
Sorry so long winded!

 

[Quintus]

We started shooting Barnes after I started working for a wild game processor, I got pretty radical about only using them, we shot a lot of game with them, delt with the copper fouling and having to burn a lot of bullets getting a decent load. Every season we'd see stuff that we just chalked up to elk being tough or pour shot placement, even though we are all into accuracy shooting sports we still just though it was us. Had to dispatch a lot of animals, the wound channels through the lungs sometimes were just a small ragged hole with not radiating damage so we put them in the shoulder which was probably over all better but still walking up on animals that just have bone broken but alive. We used the carry 22 lr pistols just to dispatch animals, shooting 25 cal through big 300 mags.
Got an opportunity to help in the taking of a lot of elk a few seasons in open fields where nothing can get away from your sight and we saw about a third of the elk shot in the shoulder with 165 and 168 TSX inside 400 yards fail to penetrate the shoulder and stop or turn and exit the front or go into the side, it really made us think about those ones we just could believe we missed but could not find anything. I've spent days trying to kill a broken shoulder elk out of a group, which also seems to relate to how many elk I used to cut back then with healed shoulders, something I haven't seen in the last 8 years maybe but would see a dozen or so a year when Barnes were what everyone shot.
The issue is that we couldn't run enough weight in the bullet to over come them not shearing of the petals and penetrating, if they opened up so large there just wasn't the momentum left to get that large frontal area through into the vitals every time, bit we had to target the shoulder to get bone and frag to make them more lethal. There were a lot of awesome one and done too but way to many mag dumps trying to stop them also.
I swore of Barnes because the meat quality was great but if I lost one elk thats WAY more meat than loosing a few pounds using a cup and core.
We tested every bullet possible and when we went heavy for cal cup it was instant change, we lost a little more meat but we saw 100% recovery and it was recovery withing feet of where you hit them, we move to shooting everything right behind the shoulder, little meat loss with elk dieing fast with one round, it was a stark change.
I spent a lot of years being a mono supporter so I still kept testing them, Cutting Edge just blew for lethality, stupid accuracy but the smallest wound channels ever and we saw deflections when we tried putting them one bone.
Steve's been on the forum a long time those of use who have been here longer can remember him trying every mono out there and giving excellent feed back. When he started making bullets I figured they'd be made to kill and man they do, only mono I've shot yet that I haven't been able to get it to turn or deflect and it's the only one I have not had to dispatch or shoot an elk twice with. Every elk I've gutted and traced the bullet path has had extensive internal damage around the wound channel, bleeding was heavy all the stuff that kills fast.
On smaller game the Hammer has been stunning how hard it hits, I've seen a couple less than stellar shots but they were lethal and the animal was dead before a second round could be sent, that really makes me like them when they cover your butt a little!!
I continue to shoot TTSX bullets for some things but not elk.

That is interesting. The 2 things a mono has going for it are weight retention and a comparatively long shank behind a sharp expanded surface/surfaces. A mono will maintain its SD and momentum far better than jacketed lead. I wonder what makes them turn so drastically on the ones that hit shoulder and exited the front?

 

[Stiltsville]

The OP makes an interesting point about how fads come and go. Today we all "know" that a RNSP bullet won't kill anything at the ranges 98% of game is killed. 5 years ago all the LR hunting experts were using match bullets. Now it seems that a monometal full of grooves is better. BC no longer matters, it's now short range performance, which takes me back to Springfield sporter in 30-06 with 180 gr round nosed soft points.

 

[UplandFreak]

Hammer bullets are only really popular on this site, which is ironic since its a long range hunting site and past 500 yds its like pulling a parachute with hammer bullets.

 

[HTJ]

Having spent several years working in Barnes ballistics lab and fielding thousands of complaint calls in the early 2000's about no expansion ok'd the X bullet, bullet diameter entry and exit, yet they are telling me about they're dead animal. Back then people didn't realize the X was expanding, petals simply sheared off due to impact velocity, dead is dead right? To make the customers happy, copper composition was adjusted so the TSX would retain 100 percent weight at 25 yds from muzzle in gelatin. Problem solved. Just curious why 20 years later people are willing to pay premium prices for a product they may have tried, and condemned, for poor performance and the Hammer performs exactly like the much earlier X bullet's did, and the Hammer is such an amazing product. I have not used Hammer bullets, wondering if I can be swayed to try them. Thanks in advance

I have used Barnes TSX and TTSX for many years and love them. Back in the mid 90's I harvested a Nalgi with 180 gr TSX actually shot him at around 40 yards with 300 RUM. I had complete pass thru, he ran about 60 yards and dropped dead. I did find one leaf of the X in the exit hide. Total internal distraction. Old Barnes or new, TSX or TTSX are a fantastic bullet to hunt with. I have harvested many different animals with them and ALL have had massive internal damage. Only real thing I don't like is they do make a small exit hold. Doing a lot of hunting in south TX with heavy brush, you need a good blood trail to follow in that brush even if it's only 10 yards. I would not leave Barnes as they make great hunting bullets for any caliber but I do pick bullets for specific hunting locations and specific game. Nosler AB or Nosler LRAB, Hornady ELDX and have tested many others. I have no experience with hammers but dislike Berger due to poor bullet performance on some game animals. I know Berger has a big following so hats off but it's just been my experience. I do reserve my Berger loads to steel only.

 

[azarcher10x]

That is just as important as anything, TRUST. That is probably where the true value in the Hammer is. With the way they are manufactured they should be utterly consistent lot to lot and shot to shot. Doubt is not something to take with hunting Marco Polos.

Unfortunately nowadays, a lot of people jump on the long range, high bc band wagon and forget all about terminal ballistics. Too heavy a bullet by design and for the size of the animal being targeted. For an elk sized animal, a 165 gr. in a 30 cal mono bullet is what you need. If using using a conventional bullet for elk, I'd opt for a 180 or 200 gr. I've sseen a lot of wound loss when the shot turns out to be short range, and the heavy bullet is through the animal before it ever has a chance to perform. I want an exit if possible, so the mono's due the trick while still expanding and delivering the energy where it's needed.