Hammer Hunter 375 Cal 395 wt first taste

[royinidaho]

I've been wringing out some Hammer Hunters for Steve. And of course for my own shooting pleasure.

I told Steve that I would let him know first of anything very unusual with the Hammer offerings.

I just experienced something more than unusual and to heck with my promise to Steve.

(Now he's looking a bit worried):roll eyes:


I shot 6 shots to sight in and pressure/velocity check. In the 375 AM I reached pressure limits prior to my anticipation. This was with 145 grains of H 50 BMG and the HH 395s running around 3070 FPS +/- 10. Way too much pressure for hunting situations.

CEBs run about the same velocity but with 157 grains of BMG.

With 6 shots down the tube she was zero'd close enough to get serious.

Seeing as how I "kinda felt" bearing surface area was a contributor to the higher pressure I did the HBN thing to several bullets.

Here's the skinny on the "highly unusual" happening.

First though not unusual was that HBN, after a thoro cleaning reduced velocity from 3070 +/- 10 to 3 shots @2978 (first shot post cleaning)/2992/2992. Drop of around 82 FPS.

With SMKS the HPN velocity drop was a bit over half of that value.

To have this occur first shot out of the gate is unheard of around this place. I've been beating my head against ES ever since I got this rig.

The next problem I've been experiencing is that the lowest ES groups are not nearly the smallest. Quite puzzling and frustrating, to say the least.

Well, look below. Holy Cow!

Considering first powder selection, random seating depth, and a guesstimated charge weight to achieve this group with shots number 7, 8 & 9 has been a first in a life time experience.

Hell!, pretty much takes all the fun out of working up a load.

I'll gain back the 82 FPS plus some if I can, but I'm betting group size pretty much hangs in there.

Pics show HBN bullets, Seating depth, group size and group position due to much lower velocity.

Steve, all I can say is that Heck Yea! I'm totally blown away.

Oh and all of this was at 300.3 yards per the Kilo 2000

 

[HARPERC]

I was just looking at this bullet, Thanks!

 

[lazylabs]

That is a bunch of bullet down in the case. Is that why you hit pressure so soon?

 

[RockyMtnMT]

I have to give a shout out to Roy. Thanks for the stomach flip.

So I asked Roy if he would be willing to do 3rd party testing. He said he would and wanted to know what conditions I would want. My answer was that I would be willing to supply him the bullets as long as he would post his findings here. Only stipulation was if he found something bad I wanted to know before he said something so that we would have a chance to fix it. He agreed to those terms.

So he calls me yesterday afternoon will I was in the shop making bullets. He proceeded to say "Remember when I said that I would let you know if something strange happened?" I am now at that very instant have a stomach issue. He then says "Well I have just encountered the strangest thing ever in my time of shooting and I broke my promise. You'll have to go on LRH and read about it.". I said, "OK I will call you back".

So I read the thread and my stomach settles. I called Roy back and I start talking about the hbn part of the thread. This was very interesting to me as we have not had the time to test it yet. Roy interrupts me and says "That's not the exciting part." He says "I have never shot this rifle this well, let alone with no load development." I explained to him that this is what has happened to us with every rifle we have loaded them in and it was not new news to me. I told him that every rifle we have loaded for hunting or testing has been this way. We have never done any seating depth adj for accuracy. Load development has always been done under 20 shots, zeroed at yardage. Roy tells me that if I had told him that before he started working with the Hammer Bullets he would have called BS. I told him that I have tried to say this on LRH and nobody has been mean to me but nobody has really acknowledged me either.

I know that Roy was waiting to ring out all the bullets that we sent him and then write a full review of his findings before he was going to post anything. The .375 is the second bullet he has worked with and the second one that needed very little load development. He could not contain his excitement with the .375 since he has always had trouble getting it to shoot really well. Having Roy so excited on the phone was very exciting for me. It's like having someone call you to praise your child for doing something great. Thank you Roy.

Steve

 

[jsthntn247]

Excellent results. What's your process on hbn coating? I've been trying to get some bullets coated for 2 weeks with no luck.

 

[Pdvdh]

Excellent results. What's your process on hbn coating? I've been trying to get some bullets coated for 2 weeks with no luck.

Have you tried heated bullets? PM me with your phone number and we can talk. I'm wondering if your vibratory tumbler lacks vibratory energy to impact plate the bullets.

 

[Pdvdh]

He (Roy) says "I have never shot this rifle this well, let alone with no load development." I explained to him that this is what has happened to us with every rifle we have loaded them in and it was not new news to me. I told him that every rifle we have loaded for hunting or testing has been this way. We have never done any seating depth adj for accuracy. Load development has always been done under 20 shots, zeroed at yardage. Roy tells me that if I had told him that before he started working with the Hammer Bullets he would have called BS. I told him that I have tried to say this on LRH and nobody has been mean to me but nobody has really acknowledged me either.
Steve

Here's my take on the topic of cautious, slow to believe, Forum members. There's been one too many foul Whiskey 3 Precision bullet manufacturers that have scammed members in the past. They show up out of the blue, as if dropped in by parachute, and promise nirvana. They consistently over-represent their product for short-term financial gain. It's always cost them in the long haul.

Big difference is you're a known commodity. Been a Forum member for a LONG time prior to starting up your Hammer Bullets business. Long enough to have observed some of the prior shenanigans, and smart enough to have learned from them.

Consequently, I do accept your performance statements - unless proven otherwise.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

Here's my take on the topic of cautious, slow to believe, Forum members. There's been one too many foul Whiskey 3 Precision bullet manufacturers that have scammed members in the past. They show up out of the blue, as if dropped in by parachute, and promise nirvana. They consistently over-represent their product for short-term financial gain. It's always cost them in the long haul.

Big difference is you're a known commodity. Been a Forum member for a LONG time prior to starting up your Hammer Bullets business. Long enough to have observed some of the prior shenanigans, and smart enough to have learned from them.

Consequently, I do accept your performance statements - unless proven otherwise.

Thank you,

I know exactly what you are talking about. More pop-less drop ring a bell? I had this conversation with Len the other day and I understand completely. It does not change my lack of patience. Logic tells me that it will take 6 mo or more to get running very well. My heart tells me it is taking too long.

As to short term financial gain. I don't think it is possible. It will take time for financial gain. We have 2 years of time, equipment, and material invested. No get rich quick here. I just hope I don't die poor and I have something to leave to my children.


Steve

 

[snox801]

Just be patient. I took the slow steady approach to growth myself. I believe that is the best way when you truly have something to offer. I am also very pleased to hear the .375 is working that well. I should recieve my .375 AM by Summer's end and would love to have a bullet like this. High bc and easy load development. This is the bullet I will be tuning for. Just be patient. I have a feeling it may take you some time as people start to build guns with twist rates capable of really making these shine. As a matter of fact I'm have a 6.5 made as light as possible and planing on making the barrel to match this type of looong bullet.

 

[mtmuley]

I don't have anything to report about Hammer Bullets. Yet. I plan on shooting and hunting with some. What I can report on is Steve himself. We have been the best of friends since childhood. Played sports together, worked together, learned about life together. And hunted and shot together. He's good stuff and won't do you wrong. As soon as I have some info to report on his bullets, I will. I have no doubt they will perform as he says. mtmuley

 

[Pdvdh]

I know exactly what you are talking about. More pop-less drop ring a bell?
Steve

Yup. Turned out it was more Plop or Flop. And the other outfit involved too much Whiskey and too little Precision and Honesty.

Takes some time to culture a business. Hope you don't run out of money before you run out of patience... as I think your business can succeed. There's a few monolithic bullet manufacturers making a go of it now. I have no doubt there's room for another. Your market won't be the rock blasters shooting Tommy guns. Perhaps a smaller clientele in that respect. But still, there's a lot of large game hunters in the country. Plus some areas require lead-free.

 

[TK 1985]

Question, these solid copper bullets are longer per weight than lead core due to density differences correct? So would you need a faster twist rate?

 

[royinidaho]

I'm going to have to figure out how to find the rifling with the bullet. I have no idea of how much jump I am running. The difficulty for me is I will have to change from my usual method of dremeling two slots in the neck and getting the correct neck tension then letting the bolt seat the bullet against the rifling.

That doesn't work with these Hammer offerings at least in my 375 AM.

First the ogive is at such an angle, if that is the proper terminology, that the bullet sticks in the bore.

Second I have a bushing sizing die which is perfect for swaged bullets and even the CEBs. But the Hammer parabolic bands don't provide a full neck length of bearing surface.

Possibly a bushing adjustment is appropriate?

However, it is a unique sensation when the bands are felt passing through the neck when the bullet is seated.

I also had some problems on a few cases when the bullet eased out from the seating depth due to compressed loads. This is a good thing, as the brass I'm using is noted for uneven neck thickness. The variation in neck thickness is easier to feel by inserting a bullet in a fired case that attempting to measure it. It's making case sorting a bit more fun.

With proper necks compressed loads are not a problem.

When fired the cartridges with the compressed load seating length variations still maintained group size. Figure that one out. Also ESs were low. Even more wonder.

After that first 3 shot group, three more shots at different targets plus a shot at my expansion test media each landed within 1 inch of POA @ 300. I'm thinking the cost of the bullets will be worth it if I can begin shooting 1 shot groups. If I can keep 0.375" groups within 0.3 MOA of POA I'll be a happy old fart.

I did the first 300 yard expansion test this evening. I left my iPhone laying around somewhere thus have no pics. I'll post results tomorrow when I track that sucker down.

What I can say though is the ThhWoommpp when that 395 HH went over the MagnetoSpeed at 3034 FPS and hit that 12" diameter X 24" length piece of irrigation mainline @ 300 yards, filled with soaking wet Canadian peat moss was quite a sound.

All major pieces of the bullet that I could find, 257 grains worth, travelled a full 18" in the media which matches any other bullet I've fired into it at that distance. That would be except for some not to be named 252 gr 338 aluminum tipped offerings that didn't open up.

 

[Pdvdh]

Roy,
Please don't swage these bullets down a caliber, or insert tips in them. I know you're a compulsive tinkerer. I want to learn how they perform in their unadulterated condition, straight from the box!