Hammer 22 Creedmoor Testing

If the targets weren't black they would be the best target. I can't shoot black target on black reticle. I know most ppl can.
 
Wedgy said:
Thanks for all your load workup details, I learned lots of stuff to try !
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Agree, thanks for doing this and publishing your results. Those 70 Bergers look very impressive!

I would love to know more about the exact load you ended up with for the Berger 70's with H4350.
Do you know how much jump you were giving these? Have a comp measurement, or OAL for us?
Do you know how fast they were traveling? (Liked the speed you were getting with the 70HH's.)
Was it Alpha brass again you were using?
What primers (large or small rifle)? Standard or magnum?
What charge of H4350 was it again for these 70 VLDs?

Everyone has to do their own load dev obviously, but I'm about to order a 1in8 26" barrel in 22 creed moor now and finding something in the 69-80 range... or perhaps I could even shoot 60 V-MAX, or 60TMK, up to the 85.5's on the high end, not sure. But I will be looking for the best bullet at 500yds, in wind/all conditions really, that will kill small varmints instantly - I mean unplugged. Like a ligtning strike. No penciling through, no crawl-offs. Don't want to have to count on head shots either, where I'm always the biggest variable in accuracy. And I do of course worry about ricochet with these longer, harder, higher BC bullets, so this will be something I watch as well as I get into some of my own field testing next summer. Thanks again for anything more you can share.
 
sbranden said:
Agree, thanks for doing this and publishing your results. Those 70 Bergers look very impressive!

I would love to know more about the exact load you ended up with for the Berger 70's with H4350.
Do you know how much jump you were giving these? Have a comp measurement, or OAL for us?
Do you know how fast they were traveling? (Liked the speed you were getting with the 70HH's.)
Was it Alpha brass again you were using?
What primers (large or small rifle)? Standard or magnum?
What charge of H4350 was it again for these 70 VLDs?

Everyone has to do their own load dev obviously, but I'm about to order a 1in8 26" barrel in 22 creed moor now and finding something in the 69-80 range... or perhaps I could even shoot 60 V-MAX, or 60TMK, up to the 85.5's on the high end, not sure. But I will be looking for the best bullet at 500yds, in wind/all conditions really, that will kill small varmints instantly - I mean unplugged. Like a ligtning strike. No penciling through, no crawl-offs. Don't want to have to count on head shots either, where I'm always the biggest variable in accuracy. And I do of course worry about ricochet with these longer, harder, higher BC bullets, so this will be something I watch as well as I get into some of my own field testing next summer. Thanks again for anything more you can share.
Click to expand...

70gr VLD at 2.560" OAL, 42gr H4350, CCI-450, Alpha OCD brass. 3490fps.

Now, the internet being the internet... someone will read that and think they can just use it. Don't.

I wouldn't recommend bergers for prairie dog sized varmints if you want zero crawl offs. You'll have better success in that way with the hornady 75gr ELDM. If the varmints are larger... then bergers tend to be OK. You can use light bullets, but your hit percentage beyond 250yds will be reduced dramatically in real conditions.


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orkan said:
Oh, by the way, I had a great conversation with Hammer yesterday. Neither of us were ready to give up on this just yet... we've got some things in the works.

Stay tuned. ;)
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Why not just stick with your Varget load on pg 7 that was shooting well?
According to hammers site you are under spinning 77 gr bullets pretty substantially.
 
Taylorbok said:
Why not just stick with your Varget load on pg 7 that was shooting well?
According to hammers site you are under spinning 77 gr bullets pretty substantially.
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For starters, I'm not working with 77gr hammers. I'm shooting 70gr hammer hunters.

The varget load was not stable. While it could produce high velocity and 1/2 MOA precision... it was not stable from an accuracy standpoint. The stars aligned and I was able to get some tight clusters, but upon further testing it revealed that some of those "3 shot groups" which I couldn't see 3 bullet holes, probably didn't have 3 bullet holes in all of them. The shots likely landed significantly away from the group, in other bullet holes on a cluttered target. I wish I could say that wasn't the case, but the load just didn't hold up to subsequent firing. When you shoot enough, you'll see things like that... where you think you've got it, and then can't replicate it... because it was actually just statistical noise.


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orkan said:
Don't take this more harshly than its intended. It's intended as a reminder. You can't admonish something you've no experience with and have it carry any weight at all. It is the sign of an intelligent man to know this.

An example of proper methodology when someone wishes to know something, looks like what I'm currently undertaking with these bullets. I have never shot a deer with a 52gr hammer hunter. So today I called and spoke with an avid Hammer 22cal customer. He has killed in excess of 60 deer with 22 cal hammers, many of them with 52gr hammer hunters. He assures me it will kill every bit as good if not better than the 80gr bergers I'm accustomed to. That is a good enough account for me to be willing to try it myself.

An 80gr berger hits a deer with an average of 300ft lbs more energy than a 6.5mm with a 140... at a distance of 600yds. The 22cal 80gr berger has a much stronger probability of transferring that energy than the 6.5mm. I have proven this beyond any shadow of doubt with my own first hand experiences. The deer I have shot with my 22 Creedmoor have been almost all lightning strike instant kills.

Despite all of my experience with 22cal on deer, I have ZERO experience with Hammers. So, in order for ANYTHING I say about them to be valid, I must shoot at least a few deer with them at several distances. Anyone listening to anything I say about them without verifying my first hand experience would be a fool, and I would be a fool for anchoring into any opinion without being able to demonstrate the work I performed which led to the formation of that opinion.

I will not allow this thread to be derailed by inexperience. If people have first hand accounts to share that are relevant, do so. If anyone has questions I can answer through testing, please ask. Argumentative or judgmental posts based on inexperience will be reported as off topic.


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Click to expand...
Your statement of an 80 grain bullet hitting a deer with 300 ft lbs more energy at 600 yards than a 140 grain 6.5 bullet is completely false. Not even close to that. Roughly 1480 ft lbs with the 6.5 vs 1150 from the 80 grain 224. Velocities compared were 3000 fps vs 3550. I have guns that shoot these velocities with both bullets so this is accurate info. Very impressive stuff with my 22-250AI using 75/80 Amax bullets but not in the same class as the 6.5 using 140s.
 
VLD Pilot said:
Your statement of an 80 grain bullet hitting a deer with 300 ft lbs more energy at 600 yards than a 140 grain 6.5 bullet is completely false. Not even close to that. Roughly 1480 ft lbs with the 6.5 vs 1150 from the 80 grain 224. Velocities compared were 3000 fps vs 3550. I have guns that shoot these velocities with both bullets so this is accurate info. Very impressive stuff with my 22-250AI using 75/80 Amax bullets but not in the same class as the 6.5 using 140s.
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I assume 6.5 creed so slow the 140 down to down to 2600, I bet the numbers are closer to the claims.
 

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