Gunsmithing Lathe

[Trickymissfit]

Hi Gary,
Your Journeymans ticket is very similar to our Indentured Apprenticeships which alas are no more here in the UK, all so called "apprenticeships" now are basically government trainings schemes, which as far as i am concerned are worthless.
i was taken on by an engineering company at 17 to do a 4 1/2 year apprenticeship. i was an employee and the company payed for all of my training but they did get government support

For the first part i did a years off the job training at a technical college to learn basic bench and machining skills, you know the stuff, fitting tests and turning and milling tests which had to reach a certain standard.
The other 3 1/2 years was spent in the training area back at work with one day a week at college studiying maths, physics and engineering technology.
After which there was a sort of graduation ceremoney where i was presented with all my certificates and all my indenture papers.

I then became an Improver and went to work in the toolroom.
After an initial apprenticeship there is no longer any encouragement to better yourself from my employer, they now wanted their monies worth of work out of me.
Anymore qualifications you wanted would have to be done off your own back, i did certificates in Welding and QC. but i enjoyed machining so much thats what i kept on doing.

I joined my last company in 1983 eventually taking over as No1 machinist after 17years, having my own section where i had a Colchester Bantam 5 1/2 x20, a Colchester Student 1800 6 1/2x40 with Ainjest high speed screw cutting attachment and a Bridgeport.
I did all the one offs and developement work and was not timed i also set up and did all the electron beam welding as well as sectioning, etching and testing samples of all the welds i did, like i said previously i get huge job satisfaction from what i do.
I can see from the way that you enthusiasticly put into words, that like me you truly enjoy what you do, it makes a change to correspond with someone with this frame of mind.

Many thanks for the insight into getting my machine trued up and possibly curing my drop, i will aslo keep a sharp eye out for the book you mentioned.
Levelling machinery at work has only ever been a hap hazzard affair, time to do it weighed up against production time lost, hence it was never "allowed" to be done properly.

I am two minds whether to level my lathe in my garage that precisely as in the next few years, i intend to go into rifle-smithing fulltime and set up my own business.
I shall be purchasing better more modern machinery because i intend to build BR, Target and Varmint rifles with the occaisional traditional hunting rifle.
To get the best results i will want to get the straightest machinery i can afford but be sure that i will take all the time needed to level my new machinery properly.

Ian.

Oh BOY!! Electron beam welding!! What brand of machines did you use? I had one electron beam welder, and hope to never ever see another again! The one we had was used for a single operation and was fully automated. Welded a steel hub to a hydroformed plate (kinda looked like half of a torque convertor) that had gear teeth cut on it. There was a hydraulic press in the system that pressed the steel hub into the plate. Then sent it strait to the welder. The welder was purely robotic in nature, and used a rotorary table so the orfice was lined up exactly right with part. It would spin the part to check to see it it was strait, and then weld the hub with a weld that was about 12mm wide with very deep penitration. This took about 20 seconds from the time the hub entered the box till everything retracted. When I first went out there I asked them what all those grey stickers were that they had stuck up all over the place (you know the answer). They were the same stickers they use in nuclear subs to detect radiation leakage!! Now I ready to get outta there in a hurry. They assured me all was OK (I never did believe them), and even went so far as to bring out a gieger counter to prove it. There were lead shields all around the box, and it looked like whoever built the thing did it upside down. The problem (as usual) was lack of vacume in the orfice. That machine was the single most expensive machine to keep running in the entire corporation, and a good week for it was seven days strait without going belly up! They sold the machine to a sub contractor, and I built a wire welding complex that used several banks of Miller welders. A welder was junk after about ten days, and there were four of them. I thought they were nuts, but they showed me the paper work, and they were a half million dollars ahead in twelve months.

I leveled all my machine centers with a Federal electronic level after roughing them in with 12" machine levels to where they were within .0005" a foot. On a Devlieg Jig Mill the spec for the x axis was was .000020 max in 12 feet. I thought they were nuts, but found out that the currunt draw for the motors was about 25% of what it was at .0005". Bad thing about doing an axis that close is that things change over night, and you have to keep tweeking the leveling pads till the frame quits changing. You can't get there with a laser, but an autocolumator will also work. After a year of setting those beasts up you get a real good education on machine tool alignments. Ever get to play with Tyco Way Bearings on a slide? Or do any work with ceramic super precision ball bearing sets? That's a whole new education in itself!
gary

 

[Centre Punch]

PM sent.

Ian.

 

[etisll40]

Great posts here, "The minds of Gunsmith's." Very cool, tool & die skills, an art and skill we need to keep in America boys.

 

[Centre Punch]

I recently re-barreled my 22-250 to 22BR and my shooting buddies 1:9 twist 223 to a 1:12 twist .223 AI.
This time both barrels were done using the through the headstock method and later shortened to the required length on the steady.
I made a 4 point spider to fit on the rear of the spindle and with my modified 4 jaw chuck and PTG ranging rods the bore was set up for the mearest flicker on the .0001" clock.

After finishing the tennon and thread i used a new method to me of chambering.
The chamber was rough drilled about .125" shallow and the bore once again indicated to almost zero, then using a home made HSS boring bar the chamber was turned to .015" under finished diametre for about an inch of depth.
This totally concentric bore then guides the finish reamer rather then relying on the pilot of the reamer to do all the work.

This results in a chamber with zero run out between it and the threads and is only governed to how accurately the bore is indicated.
I am not going to say it is a more accurate way of chambering a barrel but IMO it is less fraut with complications which could occur by guiding the reamer by the pilot alone.

Ian.

 

[BARTFRNCS]

Have the grizzly lathe the answer is that its as accurate as you are. Had mine 3 years and still doing great and holding its tolerances. I'm not a production operation build maybe 10 ,15 rifles a year. Remember what you save in money you pay for in grief.gun)Bart

 

[rifle 57]

I like big heavy lathes this what I have been useing for 15 years.

 

[7normaWSM]

What length is your spindle bore on the Triumph ?
Looking a buying that exact model myself for gunsmithing .
How do you find yours ?
Thanks,7norma .

 

[rifle 57]

7 norma
The spindle bore lenth is 24 inches with out a chuck on it. It is a 1983 15 x 50 . Most barrels must be done between centers. Although I do have other ways of doing them other than between centers.

 

[7normaWSM]

7 norma
The spindle bore lenth is 24 inches with out a chuck on it. It is a 1983 15 x 50 . Most barrels must be done between centers. Although I do have other ways of doing them other than between centers.

Hi rifle 57,thanks for your reply .
Is there a point where the lathe is too big for gunsmithing ?

 

[rifle 57]

I allways think bigger is better. I just like heavy lathes they are alot more rigid and easier to get better finishes on. I started out with small light weight lathes with tin can bases and I never could get the results that I wanted.
When you are doing work for your self I guess they are ok. But when you start doing work for other people you want the work to look good.
My lathe might be a little to big for some gunsmiths the way they like to chamber through the head stock with cat heads on both ends of the spindle, but their are other ways to get the job done. You just have to be a little creative. I have two other lathes, one is a 16x40 true turn that is 3300 lbs, and a MSC 13x40 that weighs 2050 lbs that does ok. I use the 15x50 Colchester for chambering and threading barrels only, and the other two for everything else. The small light weight lathes will work fine for most gun work I just dont like them. If you have not used a good big heavy lathe before, and you do finnaly get a chance to use one you will see what I am talking about. I hope this answers your question.
Loren

 

[rifle 57]

This is a 16x40 True Turn made in Tiwan. It is a high quality lathe and it does nice work. I use it for action truing and making other parts.

 

[rifle 57]

This lathe is a 13x40 sold by MSC and is a pretty good little lathe for gun work. It would be a good lathe for most gunsmiths. It is heavy enough to do nice work. I use it for threading muzzle brakes and suppressers because you can work through the head stock and you can leave the action on the barrel.

 

[rifle 57]

Her is a photo of a barrel job done on the Colcester

 

[etisll40]

Nice work. I like the smaller lathe you pictured, mostly because of space constaints. What does a used one run?