Great Podcast on terminal performance.

[Lou270]

'Form' goes by Formidilosus over on Frank's forum. He's a moderator on Ryan's forum too I think. He shares a lot of the testing he does and is a real credit to the community in my view. Seems to keep his commercial affiliations out of it for the most part, which I appreciate.

Seeme like the Shoot 2 Hunt podcast may be a rokslide production..?

Ah. Formidilosus. A good and knowledgeable guy. I will say I don't agree on few points he made in the podcast like the mono expansion and also that gets more exits with match bullets than accubonds/monos. I really like berger and use them a good bit in several rifles but they do what they do - go in and fragment. I rarely ever catch an accubond let alone barnes/mono. I also don't see significantly faster kills with bergers compared to tougher bullets. Even if they run less on average it is few yards not something like 0-10 yards vs 100+. Vast majority either drop or run few 10-yards whether berger or something stouter. Of course this is not extreme range either which may be what he meant but not clear

Lou

 

[Keystone7mm]

Love it.

 

[Franko21]

This is just the kind of info that makes us all better hunters.

Thank you for bringing it to our attention.

 

[Joefrazell]

Yep, been saying it for years. A good match bullet does wonders on game. Then you have gun writers and people using monos and saying that they cant see how someone would use a lighter constructed bullet because of the way a bull elk took a mono or two and ran 200-300 yards. They think that a bullet with less construction will just stop on the hide, muscle or bone. The biggest thing I took away is how thin an elk really is. A lot of people think a bullet has to go a lot further then it really does to reach vitals, even on quartering shots.

 

[nralifer]

Gday
be interesting to hear from the mono companies
& we need to break those down in 2 styles as I've been trying to do for sometime here without much luck so I hope this podcast reinforces that part & was waiting for those people to understand what's going on
So I only know of 3 mono company people
( @nralifer ,@RockyMtnMT & @Samantha-CEB ) on here as apex has left I believe but if more exsist id suggest tagging them as always interesting hearing the other side of the coin as it has huge merit when those companies get it right & im not putting anyone on top or anyone style as I'll let ea individual make one's mind up so I'm being as diplomatic here as I can & just trying to get more people to understand it's a bit wider than one thinks yet extremely simple when you grasp it
So once again clear one's mind & look @ the base line then move forward with that

For me my mind is clear but still more to learn
Yep I'm still pushing companies for better pills based on My data sheets which started around 30 years ago & that man is so correct on we need numbers to see what & where a pill does it's thing

So I really say to people it's just like bingo that can have 2 sides of the coin yes great when it works but bingo is not good when your numbers called out yep is one to avoid if we can help it
That's a broad statement so not directed @Wyo37 as I've used bingo raffle for a longtime


But let's keep this in reality you can pick him apart & if I took this on board / heard it correctly ( correct me if I'm wrong & no offence ) so as in gel with a Barnes the pill opens on impact or shortly after yet on the fictional elk it didn't open till towards the end of its penetration path path

& totally open here I can be pulled apart also on my theories as I don't know everything or even a lot in the big picture but I'll back my position up with factual results off the numbers he spoke of & more .
I'll bow out of this thread as i don't want to derail as I think it's more important to listen to that guy & what he is using as a base of the system that kills as that's the key here not what brand is what it's the system/procedure that kills
Yes it's only part of the fascinating world of terminal & by the likes of this guy ( never heard of him but I know by how he speaks he knows his stuff not the ones who read others work & relay as theirs no he's the real deal imo ) along with Nathan foster , frackler , rathcoombe etc we can learn more & understand what pill will suit our needs & tomorrows pill I look forward to seeing yes room for improvements on all but that's me ea do what one likes

No proof read sorry but probably makes no difference lol
Cheers

It seems no amount of discussion is going to convince you of the performance of our bullets. All you have to do is give them an honest trial in hunting situations. My own first shot DRT kill percentage went way up when we finally arrived at a design whose BCs and terminal performance met competative standards. then it became a matter of trying them in the field. African Plains Game hunting was ideally suited for this. When we did that we shot all the animals on that trip with a 308 Win with the 150 gr BD bullet and got every one with one shot a piece dead right there and did not recover a single bullet. Frankly we were surprised, but our customers are experiencing the same thing.

 

[Wyo37]

For ease of reference. Below are screenshots from Hornady's own website documenting 10% organic ballistic gelatin tests with various eldm bullets.

147eldm 6.5 creedmoor

106gr eldm tap 6mm arc

178gr eldm 308win

Now those are three examples with the substrate being plywood for all three. I'm shocked those match bullets didn't just "blow up"........

 

[sierracharlie338]

Being led to water......

That one is worth listening to and hitting replay.

Turns out properly calibrated 10% organic ballistic gelatin test with multiple substrates does mean something. Who knew? Haha.

Now with the knowledge provided by that podcast, go peruse the Hornady LE website. They provided ballistic gel tests (per fbi protocols) for all of their LE rounds (hint...they're mostly ELDM)

Rifle Ammunition - Hornady Law Enforcement

“Ten bullets through one hole,” was the philosophy of J.W. Hornady, the company’s founder. This great idea of accuracy and perfection has continued from the first bullet made more than half a century ago, right through today.

www.hornadyle.com

yUo CaNt KiLl WiTh MaTcH bOoLiTs!!

Lol I've been lucky enough to seen the Hornady testing in person (both rifle and handgun) it was very interesting.

Need to listen to the podcast the op posted but sounds like solid info from the comments.

 

[fordy]

It seems no amount of discussion is going to convince you of the performance of our bullets. All you have to do is give them an honest trial in hunting situations. My own first shot DRT kill percentage went way up when we finally arrived at a design whose BCs and terminal performance met competative standards. then it became a matter of trying them in the field. African Plains Game hunting was ideally suited for this. When we did that we shot all the animals on that trip with a 308 Win with the 150 gr BD bullet and got every one with one shot a piece dead right there and did not recover a single bullet. Frankly we were surprised, but our customers are experiencing the same thing.

Gday nrailer
Hopefully this will make it easier for you to understand
I was asking for your opinion on this thread more specifically the podcast & the content put forward in it

On your request I'll ask you to ask that question in another thread & I'll answer that question there as I stated I would bow out as not to derail this thread as it has some extremely good information in it some is also questionable in other areas as I think I pointed out a small bit
Overall I was seeking your input along with the other bullet companies perspective on what you lot ( bullet companies) take into account as being important & it was also a window of opportunity for you to put your position forward not inviting me back in with a ultimatum


Just clearing things up in advance if you quote me in this thread I will not answer but gladly answer in another thread

Cheers

 

[Rosebud]

Saw a old Hornady manual from 60,s or 70,s that showed Amax as a medium game bullet. Same bullet as ELDM today but different tip.

 

[Window]

Give it a listen if you have time. Tons of calibrated ballistic gel testing and field testing info.

View attachment 497316

Good podcast and I agree with some of his logic. I've had blood in both eyes since I was old enough to walk and have shot hundreds of deer and dozens of elk to know that what was said in the podcast is not the end all. Shoot a bull or a mature whitetail at a front quartering shot with a eldm or x and more times than not, without a follow up shot, it's a lost animal.

 

[Huntnful]

Good podcast and I agree with some of his logic. I've had blood in both eyes since I was old enough to walk and have shot hundreds of deer and dozens of elk to know that what was said in the podcast is not the end all. Shoot a bull or a mature whitetail at a front quartering shot with a eldm or x and more times than not, without a follow up shot, it's a lost animal.

Seems like the majority of fragmenting bullets is about 16" of penetration under a lot of circumstances. So quartering at you and hitting point of shoulder with an elk is not ideal for sure. Quartering at you enough, and hitting inside the shoulder, towards the neck, would be devastating though.

 

[Wyo37]

Shoot a bull or a mature whitetail at a front quartering shot with a eldm or x and more times than not, without a follow up shot, it's a lost animal.

Especially if you miss the vitals.

 

[Window]

Seems like the majority of fragmenting bullets is about 16" of penetration under a lot of circumstances. So quartering at you and hitting point of shoulder with an elk is not ideal for sure. Quartering at you enough, and hitting inside the shoulder, towards the neck, would be devastating though.

Agreed

 

[bsnyder]

That was one of my favorite podcasts to date. Tons of info. When the dust settles we all get to hunt with what we want. We all talk here together but there are only a few that I know of that hunt together from here. So if we don't agree with what the other is shooting the worst thing that happens is you read about it on here. You didn't have to eat it, clean it, or help pack it out.