Good day Turned???

[kbaerg]

I wanted to vent a little frustration I had today. My wife and I had to travel into town for the day and I thought it was a good time to check out my next scope which will be a Nightforce 5-22x50 Moar reticle. After looking at scopes I decided to head to a somewhat local gun shop and discuss with a smith about my savage 110 300 win mag. I had asked him if he worked on savages to which his reply was, "no, there are better guns to work on but I can." I told him that my plan DOWN THE ROAD was to replace the barrel and at that time have him true and time the action and install a barrel. He goes off saying savages are not worth the time to build up and there are lots better options out there. ( I can't argue that). He then goes on saying that putting any time or money in my rifle will not improve the accuracy much and savages aren't designed to be real accurate. At this point I felt he may as well say my rifle is piece of crap and leave. So my closing remarks him were thanks and I left. Maybe he has some points but from a business point I think it was rude to downgrade a persons rifle. I realize I could put the money I would spend in this towards a new rifle, so maybe I'll just burn the barrel up on this learning and practicing then purchase a new custom from someone on here that I have been researching very closely.

 

[HARPERC]

Without agreeing or disagreeing on the merits of Savage's, it kind of depends on his motivation. If he's telling you his experience trying to help you out it's a good thing.

More than rifle builder has stopped trying to turn various actions into precision equipment.

That can be viewed as trying to sell you another action, or trying to get the customer what they want in the straightest line.

If your hearts set on the Savage, he's given you the chance to use someone that is perhaps more experienced in that particular action. Better to find that out up front.

 

[kbaerg]

you bring some good points, I had thought about that after, but his tone and some comments had me feeling otherwise, I will agree that yes I could get better which is why I thought maybe I will just use this info givin as a learning curve. I generally try to weigh my cost vs. a full custom, but maybe it's better to put all the money into a full custom

 

[westcliffe01]

Lets get a little perspective:

Would you be able to install your own barrel ? You would need an action wrench, barrel nut wrench and a go gauge and a piece of paper.

Is there any reason you have to believe that trueing and timing your action would bring you any special benefit ? Specifically, is the extraction of brass from the chamber difficult ? Is the bolt lift uncomfortably heavy ? Do you think that the firing pin is drawn way too far back compared to what is needed to reset the trigger ? If you have no complaints regarding these things now, how would you be able to judge if any gunsmith actually did any of the work you would pay for ?

I own several savage 10.s, 110's, 12, and a model 112 and I'm not sure that I have any complaints on any of the above points. If I was going to do anything, I would have a smith order target accutriggers for all of mine which do not have them, and then fit those myself. Thats about the biggest improvement I could make. Possibly also replace the sears that have some wear on them.

Thee are plenty of opinionated people out there with their own bias. Gunsmiths love the Remington, because so many people buy them and often they shoot like crap, so they have a nice big captive market who bring in their rifles for trigger jobs, outright replacement, trueing, timing etc. Replacing the generally terrible barrels (which is very labor intensive + $). So Remington is the cash cow for these people and there is really not a lot for them to do to a Savage. They can't really charge $300 to swap a barrel, because someone would figure out that it was an unjustified ripoff. But with a Remington, its all good.

You got the right and intended message. Find someone else to work with, or better still, do it yourself and watch a few Youtube videos.

I had asked him if he worked on savages to which his reply was, "no, there are better guns to work on but I can." I told him that my plan DOWN THE ROAD was to replace the barrel and at that time have him true and time the action and install a barrel.

 

[kbaerg]

My understanding for timing and truing was to have a tighter, smoother, square, action. I haven't had any bolt issues, but as I stated I was planning on this for future and figured since I would be replacing the barrel why not do everything. Some of my research for doing this came from a savage forum. Yes I could do a barrel swap. I have watched a few videos on doing so.

 

[westcliffe01]

The truth is that few gunsmiths know how to true and time a Savage. Lapping bolt lugs, facing off the receiver, that is all basic stuff. But the bolt is completely different to a Remington and there are few aftermarket parts available, whereas one would generally either replace the bolt on a Rem with a new one or sleeve it as part of the trueing and timing process. A "real" trueing job would require replacing the bolt just to get the clearance down to a reasonably acceptable value. But what passes for a trueing job differs drastically from 1 shop to the next and by the day of the week.

At the moment, the only game in town for a better than factory trigger that could realistically compare to triggers for the Remington is the SSS Trigger and to get that the action has to be timed by them. The only issue is that customer service reports on SSS would be F- for the last year. I certainly would be hesitant to do business with a company when you do not know if you will see your action again in the same calender year...

 

[acloco]

The truth is that few gunsmiths know how to true and time a Savage. Lapping bolt lugs, facing off the receiver, that is all basic stuff. But the bolt is completely different to a Remington and there are few aftermarket parts available, whereas one would generally either replace the bolt on a Rem with a new one or sleeve it as part of the trueing and timing process. A "real" trueing job would require replacing the bolt just to get the clearance down to a reasonably acceptable value. But what passes for a trueing job differs drastically from 1 shop to the next and by the day of the week.

At the moment, the only game in town for a better than factory trigger that could realistically compare to triggers for the Remington is the SSS Trigger and to get that the action has to be timed by them. The only issue is that customer service reports on SSS would be F- for the last year. I certainly would be hesitant to do business with a company when you do not know if you will see your action again in the same calender year...

Ditto with EVERYTHING westcliffe01 stated.


I own multiple Savage rifles (and others)...and ALL of the Savages are more than capable with less than MOA....at distance. In particular, the 300 Win Mag is a 1/2 to 3/4 MOA rifle at 1200 yards...and that is with me behind the trigger.

Stock 110 long action, single shot, non accutrigger, flat back action, with a 1:9 twist 223 barrel, simple shoots everything. 69 gr HPBT Sierras over 25.0 of H4895 is nothing short of superb.

 

[kbaerg]

Thanks for some of the info and giving insight. I was just wondering what I could do to get a little more from my savage down the road. As of now it does shoot really well with me being the culprit for bad groups. I have been able to hold 1/2" groups at 200yds. with it and at 400 yds. can get from 3.75" to 4.25"groups. This is all with no brake.
After sleeping on this I have decided that probably my interpretation from the smith was not so good but rather his way of saying I really don't want to work. I'll look at this as a positive as I can put the money I would have spent on this towards my full custom.

 

[7magcreedmoor]

If you are into doing your own work, then the guy probably did you a favor (though unintended). A good quality barrel from the maker of your choice and a Rifle Basix SAV2 trigger will likely give you performance that a "full custom" may or may not exceed, whatever the cost. I have a 111 action with an EABCO varmint barrel, SAV2, in a Boyd's laminate stock that gave me this group:

 

[DocB]

Lets get a little perspective:

Would you be able to install your own barrel ? You would need an action wrench, barrel nut wrench and a go gauge and a piece of paper.

Is there any reason you have to believe that trueing and timing your action would bring you any special benefit ? Specifically, is the extraction of brass from the chamber difficult ? Is the bolt lift uncomfortably heavy ? Do you think that the firing pin is drawn way too far back compared to what is needed to reset the trigger ? If you have no complaints regarding these things now, how would you be able to judge if any gunsmith actually did any of the work you would pay for ?

I own several savage 10.s, 110's, 12, and a model 112 and I'm not sure that I have any complaints on any of the above points. If I was going to do anything, I would have a smith order target accutriggers for all of mine which do not have them, and then fit those myself. Thats about the biggest improvement I could make. Possibly also replace the sears that have some wear on them.

Thee are plenty of opinionated people out there with their own bias. Gunsmiths love the Remington, because so many people buy them and often they shoot like crap, so they have a nice big captive market who bring in their rifles for trigger jobs, outright replacement, trueing, timing etc. Replacing the generally terrible barrels (which is very labor intensive + $). So Remington is the cash cow for these people and there is really not a lot for them to do to a Savage. They can't really charge $300 to swap a barrel, because someone would figure out that it was an unjustified ripoff. But with a Remington, its all good.

You got the right and intended message. Find someone else to work with, or better still, do it yourself and watch a few Youtube videos.

+1 on this!

I had the same issue with a well known smithy in Northern VA. Oh well, glad that he is independently wealthy and doesn't need my money and smiths to just past the time. Now I try to do as much as I can myself with the advice and mentorship of fellow shooters and the good people on this site. Can't get any better help than that.

Good luck with your future project pardner!

DocB

(ps... we haven't given up on moving to the Wet Valley. Sooner or later it's gonna happen!)

 

[FEENIX]

Excellent shooting 7magcreedmoor; you gotta love them Savages! gun)

 

[kbaerg]

Wow this came back to Life... Anyways, yes I could do a barrel swap and will be doing so until funds are available for a full custom. Those are some good groups 7Magcreedmoor. I have been finding my stock savage is holding itself up pretty well when I do my part and take my time, so it will be staying the way it is until the barrel goes or I have my custom rifle.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Like Ron Pierce told me 2 weeks ago, nothing beats a custom barrel compared to a factory barrel.

But then, what do I know.....

 

[Barrelnut]

Like Ron Pierce told me 2 weeks ago, nothing beats a custom barrel compared to a factory barrel.

But then, what do I know.....

I have come to believe this is true.

Also, on a Savage, most suggest that trueing a Savage action is not necessary and the money is best spent on replacing the barrel. Guess this because of the floating bolt head, tighter machining tolerances and headspace control of the Savage actions.

That is the route I have taken and I have NO accuracy issues with my Savages.