When you are looking strIctly at effects on accuracy, more precisely consistency in POI reducing/eliminating as many variables as possible is necessary. Thus LR is not the place too look unless all the work was in indoors where enviornmentals are controlled. Given how accurately target groups can be measured even short range groups can give serious insight.
The issue here is that shooters here are mainly hunters and LR hunters at that. We are not usually going to accept things a 100/200 BR shooter is.
Does anyone by chance recall a gentleman by the name of Virgil King? Maybe read about him? For those that gave not he happened to be a very meticulous BR shooter t8hat owned a large warehouse outside Houston. He was actually a construction contractor by trade his whole life. Friends with Bob Fischer, Ed Shilen, TJ Jackson many to BR shooters of the time 70s and 80s.....
I am sure Bart recalls as I have seen and participated in threads back in the old Bulletin Board and emailing chain list days of the public internet infancy yrs. You, Toby Bradshaw, Doug White, Gale McMillan, Ed Harris etc would all kick things back and forth in the email lists back around 1990. +/-.
I recall the numerous mail chains on FL vs Neck vs bump effects actions tolerance mechinics extractor ejector types etc. I was just getting serious into precision shooting and extended range shooting (past typically accepted hunting distances) I saved many of those threads and built many handloads procedures based on those for hunting and service rifles comp.
As far as I know, in terms of rifle accuracy/consistency testing (from a short range BR perspective), at least publicly released, no one has never exceeded what Virgil and that group of elite BR shooters did over a period of 8 yrs on that indoor controlled enviornment 100-325 yd max range setup down the center on his warehouse. BTW Virgil passed away in '04.
I recommend those not familiar with the '93 Precision Shooting Magazine's Special Issue #1 1993 take the time to read it. I think, I still have all my issues of PS. It may not apply 1/1 to our shooting there are still effect /results & wisdom IMO to glean.
Here is a link to PDF of that article:
Secrets of the Houston Warehouse by David Scott
To be clear, I am not saying any of these are things that are advisable for LR hunting etc.
Still, consider Virgil said that they did not consider a setup was shooting well until it consistently shoot its back to back 5rd groups inside 0.080" @100yd.
We now know, as we have tools to measure today, some of their conclusions as to "why" certain specs or procedures effected consistency were possibly incorrect but the effect it had was still clear. Example we have gauges on arbor or die presses to read bullet seating pressure. Even die setups to read release pressure testing. We have predictive engineering sotfware to show harmonics effects on muzzle position.
But some things we can carry over as universally relevant regardless of BR to SAAMI tolerance chambers setupsa inbetween; Comp to hunting. I gleaned bits of wisdom when it first was published. One was bullet alignment and neck tension and smoothness(Co friction) between bullet and neck were critical. As we know from basic tuning on a healthy node neck tension consistency and bullet to land have much more significant effects vs a tenth or two of powder charge.
Overall it does show when you can hold and control consistency between chamber and cartridge etc to a very high level the group consistency that is repeatably possible is extreme.
With our type of shooting we have to establish the way to get the most consistency when there are larger mechanical tolerances needed for high reliability.
The issue here is that shooters here are mainly hunters and LR hunters at that. We are not usually going to accept things a 100/200 BR shooter is.
Does anyone by chance recall a gentleman by the name of Virgil King? Maybe read about him? For those that gave not he happened to be a very meticulous BR shooter t8hat owned a large warehouse outside Houston. He was actually a construction contractor by trade his whole life. Friends with Bob Fischer, Ed Shilen, TJ Jackson many to BR shooters of the time 70s and 80s.....
I am sure Bart recalls as I have seen and participated in threads back in the old Bulletin Board and emailing chain list days of the public internet infancy yrs. You, Toby Bradshaw, Doug White, Gale McMillan, Ed Harris etc would all kick things back and forth in the email lists back around 1990. +/-.
I recall the numerous mail chains on FL vs Neck vs bump effects actions tolerance mechinics extractor ejector types etc. I was just getting serious into precision shooting and extended range shooting (past typically accepted hunting distances) I saved many of those threads and built many handloads procedures based on those for hunting and service rifles comp.
As far as I know, in terms of rifle accuracy/consistency testing (from a short range BR perspective), at least publicly released, no one has never exceeded what Virgil and that group of elite BR shooters did over a period of 8 yrs on that indoor controlled enviornment 100-325 yd max range setup down the center on his warehouse. BTW Virgil passed away in '04.
I recommend those not familiar with the '93 Precision Shooting Magazine's Special Issue #1 1993 take the time to read it. I think, I still have all my issues of PS. It may not apply 1/1 to our shooting there are still effect /results & wisdom IMO to glean.
Here is a link to PDF of that article:
Secrets of the Houston Warehouse by David Scott
To be clear, I am not saying any of these are things that are advisable for LR hunting etc.
Still, consider Virgil said that they did not consider a setup was shooting well until it consistently shoot its back to back 5rd groups inside 0.080" @100yd.
We now know, as we have tools to measure today, some of their conclusions as to "why" certain specs or procedures effected consistency were possibly incorrect but the effect it had was still clear. Example we have gauges on arbor or die presses to read bullet seating pressure. Even die setups to read release pressure testing. We have predictive engineering sotfware to show harmonics effects on muzzle position.
But some things we can carry over as universally relevant regardless of BR to SAAMI tolerance chambers setupsa inbetween; Comp to hunting. I gleaned bits of wisdom when it first was published. One was bullet alignment and neck tension and smoothness(Co friction) between bullet and neck were critical. As we know from basic tuning on a healthy node neck tension consistency and bullet to land have much more significant effects vs a tenth or two of powder charge.
Overall it does show when you can hold and control consistency between chamber and cartridge etc to a very high level the group consistency that is repeatably possible is extreme.
With our type of shooting we have to establish the way to get the most consistency when there are larger mechanical tolerances needed for high reliability.