First 700 barrel-changing venture not going so well.

[Max Heat]

I finally got the barrel that I've been so patiently waiting on (7RUM, 32" un-contoured SC). But the vise blocks that I am using don't appear to be anywhere close to being up to the task of holding the stock rem pencil barrel tightly enough to allow it's removal from the action. They say 4 inch "soft vise jaw pads with V groove", and are made of some kind of black-colored plastic (squirreldaddy.com). They are in a 6 inch bench vise, so I don't think the vise is the problem. I tried using some Leto brand (chinese) bow rosin on the barrel, but it doesn't seem to be doing JS. It just flakes right off of the barrel as it easily rotates between the tightened-down blocks, when turning the action (using a #2 wrench).

Is there ANY FW that this setup is capable of getting the job done?

Or do I need to invest in [or maybe build] a bolt-down style barrel vise, and use oak "bushing" blocks, as the Wheeler wrench instructions suggest?

 

[MudRunner2005]

I finally got the barrel that I've been so patiently waiting on (7RUM, 32" un-contoured SC). But the vise blocks that I am using don't appear to be anywhere close to being up to the task of holding the stock rem pencil barrel tightly enough to allow it's removal from the action. They say 4 inch "soft vise jaw pads with V groove", and are made of some kind of black-colored plastic (squirreldaddy.com). They are in a 6 inch bench vise, so I don't think the vise is the problem. I tried using some Leto brand (chinese) bow rosin on the barrel, but it doesn't seem to be doing JS. It just flakes right off of the barrel as it easily rotates between the tightened-down blocks, when turning the action (using a #2 wrench).

Is there ANY FW that this setup is capable of getting the job done?

Or do I need to invest in [or maybe build] a bolt-down style barrel vise, and use oak "bushing" blocks, as the Wheeler wrench instructions suggest?

Story Barrel Vise Steel

Baker Brass Shim Stock Assortment 6 x 12 Package of 12

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjZws99ty8k]Gunsmithing - How to Properly Remove a Barrel from a Bolt Action Rifle - YouTube[/ame]
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LWNXMQv3AM]Gunsmithing - Complete Tear Down and Disassembly of a Remington 700 - YouTube[/ame]

 

[MudRunner2005]

There's a bunch of videos this guy has, and they're all very interesting. I suggest watching all of his videos.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n191F9c1YiQ]Remington 700 action trueing Part 1 - YouTube[/ame]

 

[lazylabs]

I use a vise like the wheeler but with 2" thick top and bottom and instead of oak blocks I use aluminum blocks. I also use a 24" and 36" cresent wrench. It might also help to heat the barrel a bit as some remingtons have locktite or something like that on the threads.

 

[AZShooter]

The latest Rem 700s had some sort of substance on the threads. I found if you heated up the shank close to the threads with a propane torch it would come apart. I still have to shock it apart with some pretty harsh hammer blows to wrench handle. I am using the Wheeler Rem barrel wrench and this vise with copper rings made from ground wire:

 

[Max Heat]

I take this to mean that the answer to my 1st question is no, the plastic vise blocks are a no-go, and 2nd Q is yes, I WILL need to use a straight-up, all-out barrel vise, such as the wheeler (in Potterfield's video, as sold by his company (that IS the one that I've been eyeing up). Or maybe the 4-bolt Tubb style seen the other guy's video?

Seeing the videos does put the size of these things into better perspective, as compared to how much smaller paper drawings of them [like on the action wrench instruction paper] make them seem. When I first got the action wrench and saw how big it actually was, I DID have an immediate gut feeling that the plastic vise blocks weren't going to work. But when someone said "just use some rosin", I thought maybe. But I mistakenly bought player's rosin, which is in 1 solid block, instead of baker's rosin, which is in powdered form. I'll have to try powderizing it with the hi-speed grinder that I normally use for grinding my AN prillz. Just have to clean it real well to be sure not to contaminate any AN with something that it could make use of as a fuel while it is in the grinder - as it only needs a little bit to be capable of going "critical".

I have thought-up something [to build] that I will try tomorrow. That failing (the way things are going, it will), I'll order-up and wait for the 465185 wheeler vise.

 

[Max Heat]

OK, those last 2 must have come in before my last 1 got posted.

The copper rings seem to be a, ah, "novel" idea. I may have to give it a try.

As far as heating goes, I have concerns about possibly dis-tempering the action, it it is infact tempered - I don't know if it is or not. But if all else fails, I would consider taking it up to max of maybe 175F. And that would be using a 1500 watt heat gun - NOT a torch!

 

[shortgrass]

I've never had to heat a 700 barrel to get it to break loose. A good, solid barrel vise with bushing that fit like they should (I have some of steel, aluminum and delrin. steel and aluminum work the best for those 'tight' barrels) and a healthy action wrench is all I've ever needed, and I've removed more than a 'few',,,,,,, many more......

 

[Max Heat]

I've never had to heat a 700 barrel to get it to break loose. A good, solid barrel vise with bushing that fit like they should (I have some of steel, aluminum and delrin. steel and aluminum work the best for those 'tight' barrels) and a healthy action wrench is all I've ever needed, and I've removed more than a 'few',,,,,,, many more......

Wasn't it you who responded similarly to the heat issue when I brought it up several months ago around the time that I had just ordered the barrel?

Trust me I don't WANT to heat it at all if not necessary. But there always seems to be those who say they do it, without problems. But as for myself, I'll go to great lengths to avoid even having to consider doing it. I'll walk away [into a smith's shop] if I reach that high of a frustration level.

So you haven't messed with hardwood at all for bushings? Have you used the wheeler vise? And I'm having a hard time understanding how delrin isn't going to be too slippery. I'm wondering if those vise blocks that I have aren't made of it.

Do you consider the actionwrench #2 from wheeler to be a "healthy" one? I'm not really forseeing any problems there. But we'll see once I get the vise situation worked out.

I can only dream about having the kind of equipment that I saw in "Mr. Midway's" shop.

 

[shortgrass]

I only use the delrin bushings for assembly. I made my vise as a 'required' tool while in gunsmithing school, my action wrench and Remington adaptors for the wrench, too. The vise is made of 1 1/2 x 2"cold rolled steel with a 1 1/2" hole bore between the two halves. The bushings are 1 1/2" C.R. steel or aluminum bar with the taper of the barrel bored. I have at least 3 dozen sets of different of bushings, maybe more. If I need a set, I make 'um. The two halves of the vise are drawn together with the barrel sandwiched between the bushings with four 1/2" socket head cap screws, most of the time I only have to tighten two. I would probably split wood bushings. I have no experience with any other vise. The action wrench is made of 1 1/4" square C.R. steel with about 10" of that turned and knurled on the 'handle' end. It is designed to go over the outside of the action, in this case there is an 'adaptor' that fits the 700s lug ways and straddles the rail on the port side. That way it grabs the lug ways, only. The wrench, overall, is 24" long. Good leverage. It hasn't been leverage enough for some Mausers I've dis-assembled, had to get pretty rough with them. I'm not familiar with the vises you've mentioned. Most of the 'commercial' vises and wrenches I have seen look like tinker toys when compared to what we built in school. The stuff found on the threads of Rems is a 'sealant' not a 'thread locker'. On blued guns it's there to keep the bluing salts from collecting there and not being able to be rinsed out, thus causing sever corrosion over time. Don't know as I've noticed it on S.S. or not. With the commercial tools it my wise to have a gunsmith break the barrel loose for you and then you can use your tools for re-assembly.

 

[Bullet bumper]

You don't want to use those copper rings because on a real tight barrel they may spin and all the pressure is on two narrow spots . marring might happen.
The whole idea of a collet is to spread out the pressure with a neat fit so friction is great but not all in one spot .
It's all about rigidity for that first factory removal .
Any kind of soft material for a collet is likely to be too weak in it's ability to hold fast under torque and friction. Wood , lead and plastic are very weak and not very reliable. Copper , brass , Aluminium alloy and steel are better but copper is hard to machine well because it is too soft and sticky so 6061 T6 or 7075 alloy , brass and steel make good collets .
The vice needs to be strong and capable of tight clamping , mounted on a rigid structure not a wobbly bench .
Prepare the collet and the part of the barrel that goes in the collet by washing down with a solvent that leaves no greasy residue . White spirit , Coleman fuel , Shellite , Lighter fluid ,
The slight amount of oil that is present on every gun barrel is enough to reduce friction to a point that a bad setup will not work .
Keep overhang of the action to a minimum. If for some reason it overhangs too much put a 2 x 4 tom under the reinforce of the barrel down to the floor to prevent flexing of the barrel and action in the downward direct that kills leverage on the thread especially during a hammer blow . Every time some small part of the whole setup flex's turning leverage is lost .
Dust the collet out with fine powdered rosin.
An external wrench is better for the first removal as it can clamp on very tight.
Make it with a short 18 inch handle that can be struck with a big hammer if necessary and be able to have a 6 foot cheater bar slipped over it also.
A really rigid system will work well with an initial hammer blow and a more flexible system may not and will need the cheater bar to build up slower tension .
You have to be careful of the advice you take as some people are just switching barrels that a gunsmith has previously removed . They are not cracking the factory barrel lockup . Once that is done lighter gear and side and rear entry wrenches can be used .
Those vids don't give you even half the story . Both are previously unlocked barrels and easy to crack.
Some factory barrels are easy and just drop right off and others are a nightmare and two men swinging on an 8 foot bar will not shift them . You are better off starting with metal collets and a good rigid sytem from the get go if you are unlocking factory barrels . If you get your gunsmith to do the initial unlock then you can carry on with the lighter gear . Putting a new barrel in does not require as much force as they use in the factories .
When striking a wrench with a hammer have the handle in the horizontal position for ease of hitting and the force goes straight down .