Fire forming brass

[Phil Rizzo]

Any chance you guys are over thinking this stuff ?

No more than medical grade scales, arbor presses, neck interference, primer crush depth etc.

 

[Bitteroot]

No more than medical grade scales, arbor presses, neck interference, primer crush depth etc.

Well the analytical balances are a personal choice but depending on the goals, the other items make a difference on the target.

 

[MagnumManiac]

Any chance you guys are over thinking this stuff ?

What's to overthink?
Would we do any of this if no improvement could be seen?
If I could slap together any brass, any primer, any powder and any bullet and not worry about neck interference, primer crush/type or seating depth, and shoot 1/4MoA, show me the way…

 

[jseandsje]

What's to overthink?
Would we do any of this if no improvement could be seen?
If I could slap together any brass, any primer, any powder and any bullet and not worry about neck interference, primer crush/type or seating depth, and shoot 1/4MoA, show me the way…

I'll say it 1/4 mos groups happen by chance, unless you follow a strict protocol like yours.

It has happened with 2 of our rifles. All the rest 3/8 to 3/4

 

[Greatgrandad]

Some days, I have to wonder how we shot so many very tiny 5 and 10 shot groups in BR way back decades ago with several of us using old dies, presses, scales, etc of the day. Some of those old records still stand to this day.

When it comes to true LR/ELR shooting, I see a lot of people heavily focused on shorter range groups, but then many that do not spend the time learning to read downrange wind and sending a lot of rounds down range at true LR/ELR.

I would rather see a guy/gal with a true 1/2-3/4 moa rifle/load who knows how to read wind at 1,000yds than someone with a 1/4-1/3 moa rifle/load who can't read the wind changes and shoots excessive large "patterns".

 

[Bitteroot]

@MagnumManiac
I personally haven't seen nodes move up more than a tenth or so from virgin brass to fire formed brass. They may so for some guys. IDK
If you want to discuss 1/4 min competition stuff then that's a different topic and most guys can't consistently achieve that shooting long range. Sure maybe for a few three shot groups but I see a half dozen record five shot groups at 2.5 or under per season…
Regardless;
I don't throw together a load with any ol component, I go through the entire tuning process on every barrel.
I just don't wait for 150 rounds to do it.

(show me the way…) sorry I don't give advice..

 

[Seabeeken]

Since i have to form my brass, i run a ladder on the virgin brass, then shoot it in matches until formed. I then run another ladder for the formed brass.
This usually leads to a .3 gr increase in charge weight in my ppc.

 

[Seabeeken]

This is why you load in batches of 50-100 anyway. Getting a new barrel run in takes 150-200 firings…

Brass from new never expands at the same rate across all in the bag.
Thinnest side expands first, then it either moves into the shoulder and neck, or it thins even more creating uneven movement.
Sizing will cause this brass to be different than brass that hasn't thinned, dimensions internally will be different.
I never size to the neck/shoulder juncture for this reason, brass movement there is critical, so I leave it alone.
Here's a photo of what I am talking about, zoom in and you will see why my precision loads are not sized here, the pressure ring doesn't exist, yet, I never seat bullet shanks below this point. This is my custom chambered 264WM, it prints into 1/4MoA 99% of the time.

Cheers.

I agree. Ive often seen case mouths longer on one side than the other needing to be squared up with a trimmer. The longer side is last to touch the bullet and can kick to the short side on bullet exit. A yaw condition if you will.
Even my ppc alpha brass which is near perfect neck thickness had this happen when i necked it to 22 from 24 cal.

 

[buckbrush]

Any chance you guys are over thinking this stuff ?

NEVER! I need something to do besides shoot in field conditions, improve wind reading skills and work on shooting positions that aren't on a bench.

 

[GLTaylor]

When I used to shoot prairie dogs, I loaded 243 to form 243 AI cases. I found a reasonably accurate load with new brass. Shot 100 or so pieces at p dogs to get some use out of sending those bullets down the bore.
Had some fun, got the initial fire forming done, then started serious load work up.

This approach might be troublesome with big boomers!

 

[Mr. E Bob]

Sounds like a lot of you get spun up easy on this topic. How many of you are neck sizing only? That seems like it would matter. Full length vs neck sizing. At what point do you look in the mirror and question if you are being obsessed with chasing what can't be captured?
Sometimes kiss is the best method.
KEEP
IT
SIMPLE
STUPID
I don't care what experience you have, how long you have been doing it. Sometimes we get so caught up in the hobbies we love and then find ourselves in this spot. Overthinking the simple **** that amounts to nothing at the end od the day. I've been there, ive chased that mythical ghost. I had to reevaluate the way I was doing stuff. Went back to just the basics, like a robot. Basics is the best practice. Guess what? Nothing changed. I focused on being a better shooter. Not a better reloader. That took me further and produced better groups than obsessing over a .0001 difference in a depth of this or that.
Good luck, great topic!

 

[JAYgs8163]

To each their own. Focusing on the details, big or small, along with preparation have always rewarded me well.

 

[Citified]

I prefer to fire form belted magnums because of case length growth to the datum.
Sometimes, it takes two firings before the case stretches to the shoulder. Others, not so much

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

I posted neutral... doesn't matter... with a caveat...
It may matter a bit with smaller cases, and I've seen it matter for fireforming to blow out; ie. 7stw from 375H&H...