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Factory Ammo Quality
- Thread starter toliver
- Start date
Help Support Long Range Hunting Forum
J E Custom
Well-Known Member
I've had more trouble with RCBS does over the years than all others combined.
Hornady, Lee, Redding (old, old Redding) and of course Dillon have served me very well for several decades.
I have yet to personally use any of the customs from PT&G or whiddon but from what I've read and heard over the years they both do good work.
Most People have had problems with one die or the other.
My only problems with RCBS and some of the others have been there inability to have a full range of adjustments. Before the newer dies came out we had to shim or grind the dies in order to get the proper sizing (There were the type that You set by tightening against the shell holder and making another 1/8th turn to get the press to break over.
We/I had to buy Small base dies in order to size for Semi Auto's. But now dies can be adjusted beyond small base dimensions, Making them much more versatile.
I loaded all of my Match ammo with RCBS and never had any problems with them If I set them correctly. (This is the problem with most dies nowadays, The re loader not the dies).
I have made dies, and used custom dies and found them to be great if set correctly. I have not used every brand of dies available because of need And have been satisfied with all I have used except Lee. Once I started testing concentricity, I tossed my Lees because of quality and replaced them because of features and quality of other brands.
I cant honestly say the new Lee dies are bad/poor because I have not bought any because of past experiences.
Now If I buy dies, my choices are based on needs and requirements that I place on the cartridge and it's use. With current brass quality and differences, I tend to buy more Bushing dies. The load and shoot rounds get the Hornady New dimension dies because of there adjustability, I can use them on Semi Autos and make them function perfectly.
Of over 50 die sets, I have RCBS, Hornady new dimension and a few bushing dies, Redding,(Both standard and bushing dies. and a couple of hard to find calibers in the Lee that I have not replaced.
No matter what brand of dies anyone likes, proper setting is very important to best fit your chamber (No two chambers are exactly alike and dies must be set for that chamber for best results).
J E CUSTOM
I bought a 6.5 Jap built in 1934 and it came with 3 boxes of Horandy Match ammo. After a solid inspection of the gun and ammo, I'd say the average runout was around .008. I took 5 rounds and pulled the bullets, dumped the powder, removed the decapping rod and ran the brass through a FL sizing die to true it up. I loaded the same power and bullets and set these aside.
The next 5 rounds I used a Hornady Concentricity gauge and tweaked them to less than .003 on runout.
All of these were shot over a chrono out to 100 yards with open sights and group sizes measured.
The group that was straightened shot noticeably better than the fresh out-of-the box rounds. The velocity was all over the place I guess from the neck tension being compromised, some took more work than others.
Obviously the straightened brass with even neck tension and more consistent powder between each round shot the best. The rifle shoot really well, but, the chamber is not true. Fired rounds needed a bit of work to get them back pretty straight. So, in an effort to work the brass and not affect neck tension, I seated a flat based bullet so the entire neck is supported and dropped it in the Concentricity gauge. I measured several places on the round and applied pressure to the high spots close to the brass wall, shoulder junction. Doing it this way had far less affect on neck tension. If you applied pressure over a larger area, a little here, roll the round a tad apply a bit more pressure, I had less of a chance of denting the wall. After the brass wall is rolling more consistent, I applied the last pressure at the shoulder, neck junction for the final truing of the round. So, I measure at the bullet ogive, the neck-shoulder junction and the wall-shoulder junction. I then pull the bullet and start the loading process with a FL resizing. The end results of this is 5 out of 5 hits on an 8inch steel plate at 300 meters, with open sights. It sounds like a lot of work but as you get the hang of it, it goes pretty fast.
As for factory ammo, so far the worst has been Winchester Super X in 264 Win Mag. Some of those were .022 on runout... Winchester brass is hard to straighten. Annealing will help.
Even though I use a full length sizing die, I don't push the shoulder all the way back. Just a .001 or 2 is all. I found pushing the shoulder all the way back and even cramming the press over did not help to straighten the brass on the 6.5 Jap. I can only find Lee dies for the Jap. I think my Redding FL bushing dies are pretty awesome on my other calibers.
The next 5 rounds I used a Hornady Concentricity gauge and tweaked them to less than .003 on runout.
All of these were shot over a chrono out to 100 yards with open sights and group sizes measured.
The group that was straightened shot noticeably better than the fresh out-of-the box rounds. The velocity was all over the place I guess from the neck tension being compromised, some took more work than others.
Obviously the straightened brass with even neck tension and more consistent powder between each round shot the best. The rifle shoot really well, but, the chamber is not true. Fired rounds needed a bit of work to get them back pretty straight. So, in an effort to work the brass and not affect neck tension, I seated a flat based bullet so the entire neck is supported and dropped it in the Concentricity gauge. I measured several places on the round and applied pressure to the high spots close to the brass wall, shoulder junction. Doing it this way had far less affect on neck tension. If you applied pressure over a larger area, a little here, roll the round a tad apply a bit more pressure, I had less of a chance of denting the wall. After the brass wall is rolling more consistent, I applied the last pressure at the shoulder, neck junction for the final truing of the round. So, I measure at the bullet ogive, the neck-shoulder junction and the wall-shoulder junction. I then pull the bullet and start the loading process with a FL resizing. The end results of this is 5 out of 5 hits on an 8inch steel plate at 300 meters, with open sights. It sounds like a lot of work but as you get the hang of it, it goes pretty fast.
As for factory ammo, so far the worst has been Winchester Super X in 264 Win Mag. Some of those were .022 on runout... Winchester brass is hard to straighten. Annealing will help.
Even though I use a full length sizing die, I don't push the shoulder all the way back. Just a .001 or 2 is all. I found pushing the shoulder all the way back and even cramming the press over did not help to straighten the brass on the 6.5 Jap. I can only find Lee dies for the Jap. I think my Redding FL bushing dies are pretty awesome on my other calibers.
Last edited:
TXAoudadKlr
Well-Known Member
I've had good luck with Hornady's ammo, found two loads from them that go under 1/3MOA easily if I do my part with my 6.5 creed.
