ENERGY FOR DEER ?

[AZhunt1121]

The standard rule of thumb to kill an elk is 1500 lbs of energy because the average elk weighs about 1500 lbs right ?

So why then do most list the minimum energy to kill a deer at 1200 lbs ? Shouldn't the effective energy level to cleanly dispatch a deer be around 350 lbs being the largest deer falls into this weight ?

Thoughts...........

 

[WildBillG]

I believe the higher number for the deer to body weight is for velocity reasons. Most bullet manufacturers want 1800fps for a bullet to reliably open. This is just my guess.

 

[DocDoc]

It would take a real big bull elk to weigh 1500, if that is even possible. The internet thinks 700 # for a mature Rocky Mountain and 900 for a Roosevelt.

 

[cohunt]

cows are 350-550 and bulls are 500-750--I wish I could bag a 1500 pound elk (as long as someone else packed it out for me)


not sure where you would find a 1200 pound deer either --- you live in Teaxs? everything is bigger there, right?

check out this page for info on elk:
http://www.rmef.org/ElkFacts

you may be thinking of moose @ 1500 pounds --bulls come in at 850-1500

I own a geo metro that weighs 1600pounds, but I prefer you dont shoot it

whit tail are 100-150, mule deer are 100-300, red stag are around 440

I prefer to use the "minimum expansion velocity" listed by the manufacture-- that usually is around 1500-1800fps, but some are as low as 1300 IIRC---as long as you put the bullet where it belongs for its construction type it will put the animal down

 

[AZhunt1121]

Kinetic energy is mass times speed, squared so I don't believe velocity figures are the key to my answer. How much energy is the minimum to cleanly kill deer with a quality bullet?

 

[cohunt]

Kinetic energy is mass times speed, squared so I don't believe velocity figures are the key to my answer. How much energy is the minimum to cleanly kill deer with a quality bullet?

kinetic energy doesn't kill --it has the ability to do so, but it must be delivered in such a way that that energy is used properly
well, if you are just looking at kinetic energy numbers you wont find your answer-- it depends on your bullet construction and placement too -- remember that arrows kill by cutting not kinetic energy, but they still kill just fine with only 50 ft pounds of energy

people kill deer with 22lr, and 50 bmg -- your question is way to generic and lacks details, you need to have more info to describe your situation but you are going to get lots of answers as its all a deference of opinion

I will defer you to this web page so you can punch some numbers into the chart and get an idea of how much energy a specific bullet has at a certain distance http://appliedballisticsllc.com/ballistics/

good luck

 

[DocDoc]

It takes more than kinetic energy. For example, a 44 mag under 100 yards does great on dear in the boiler room. A light 17 cal at 4000 fps in the butt not so much.

 

[del2les]

Here we go again. The OLD arbitrary minimum ft/lbs, lb/ft today, to kill such n such. I and many others have killed many deer sized animals with bullets that carry FAR less than 1,000ft/lbs at 50 yards. 22lr, 22mag, 222, 223, 38+P, 357mag, 41mag, 44mag, 45LC+P, 45 ACP, 36, 45 and 50 cal muzzle-loader ball loads, arrows, etc, etc. I have killed deer sized animals, 300 lbs and below, at long range with rifle calibers/loads that had dropped below the 1,000ft/lb mark, and those animals are just as dead.

Shot placement and bullet construction are far more important then any arbitrary minimum number some writer came up with decades ago.

 

[palerider3]

Those "rules" are from a long time ago. What you need is enough speed to cause the bullet to expand properly and enough energy to push that bullet through to the vitals. You definitely don't need 1200 or deer. 9mm kills deer just fine with 350 ftlbs of energy. Lots of people think you need a lot of energy for elk, but in reality bullets go through them just fine too.

 

[BallisticsGuy]

Optimal Game Weight has proven to be a useful is not prescriptive way of making good choices. Energy alone doesn't stop hearts beating.

https://www.chuckhawks.com/game_range_caliber.htm

 

[FEENIX]

"My" unwritten rule is 1000 FT-LBS for deer and 1500 FT-LBS for elk + minimum velocity expansion of bullet (i e., 1600 FPS) at point of impact. Shot placement remain a critical factor.

 

[AZhunt1121]

Kinetic energy does stop hearts.
Energy is figure by the weight of the bullet and the velocity. They are paired and always will be, this is Newtons formula for kinetic energy.
A fast bullet without weight and a big bullet without speed will not produce an adequate energy level like a good weight to velocity ratio.
I don't to hear minimum velocity comments, that is rubbish.
I already stated using a quality bullet.

My question is what is the minimum energy level for deer using quality bullets ?

 

[BallisticsGuy]

Kinetic energy does stop hearts.
Energy is figure by the weight of the bullet and the velocity. They are paired and always will be, this is Newtons formula for kinetic energy.
A fast bullet without weight and a big bullet without speed will not produce an adequate energy level like a good weight to velocity ratio.
I don't to hear minimum velocity comments, that is rubbish.
I already stated using a quality bullet.

My question is what is the minimum energy level for deer using quality bullets ?

That's absolutely wrong on just about every single possible level and shows a massive lack of understanding of the matters being discussed but, you do you.

laugh.

 

[AZhunt1121]

What is wrong about it ?