Edge over kill for KS white tail

I Missed the shoulder and hit just behind it and the bullet entered between 2 ribs and never opened up just pencil holes in and out and the deer made it around 450 yards of heavy brush be dying . Yeah i used to party at Remingtons in the good old Days i think its a Furniture store now .
 
Do not mean this in any disrespectful way but let me see if I understand what happened.

You shot at a deer at 450 yards. Hit to far back, clipped the back of one lung, liver and guts, no solid bone hit, deer ran 1/4 mile and your unhappy with the bullet????

What do you think would have happened if you had aimed solidly on the point of the shoulder as you should have with that shot presentation, the bullet impacted on the shoulder and penetrated through both lungs and exited?????

Again, not trying to start anything but how can a poor impact not be blamed for the deer running 1/4 over what you claim as poor bullet performance.

I assure you, even a solid 338 bullet punched through both lungs will put any animal on the ground quickly. On the other side of the coin, you can hit even the smallest animal in the guts and leave one lung completely in tact and it will travel a long way.

From what I read, poor shot placement is all that I see was the problem. You hit nothing but EXTREMELY soft tissue. Should the bullet have expanded more, probably but you are shooting them at very low velocity and impact velocity at 450 yards would be even lower.

Point being, take the shoulder out and you would not have had any reason to make this post.

I have taken several dozen big game animals with match bullets, from 50 yards to 1350 yards, I have yet to have one get away, I have had a few that needed to be finished off and all of those were my fault for poor shot placement, not the fault of the bullet.

Hope I did not offend but I think you would have been much more impressed if you actually put that bullet squarely through the vitals instead of just nicking the back edge of the vitals.
 
I don't care what bullet you use a shot not placed well, is just that, a shot not placed well.

Perfect example of this is last Sat. I shot a medium sized yote with my 6-284 using 75gr vmax. Yote was only about 75yds away and my hit was slightly behind front shoulders and in the lower 1/3 of his body. It was such a close shot that I could see the spray come out the other side. It really showed up well since everything was white from there being about 6in. of snow on the ground. He spun around and ran like I had missed him completely for about 200yds then stopped, turned around looking at me and stood there. When he stopped and turned to look back at me I could see the exit hole in his off side. The hole was the size of a baseball. I was VERY surpised he was able to run that far that fast let alone stand there and look at me 200yds away but obviously I made a poor shot and didn't hit anything real important. Considering the size of the hole I would certainly say the bullet did it's job so the only blame could be placed on my shot placement. The 2nd shot literally knocked him stiff for a long winters nap.
 
Bridgebuilder,

This is my very limited experience with the .338 SMK. I shot the first doe at 155 yards hitting the high shoulder. The bullet took out the top of the shoulder and all of the spine . DRT The second doe was shot at 300 yards. The bullet entered the back of the rib cage and exited the offside shoulder. The exit wound was large enough to put your fist in. The insides of this deer was totally mush. I lost the rib cage and the one shoulder to waste. I will not shoot deer this close for meat with this rifle again. The rifle is a .338 Edge Shooting the 300 SMK at 2750 fps.
 
I did and always aim for the a good shoulder shot and have for the short 27 years i have deer hunted . I openly admit that i missed the shoulder but not real sure why the gun shoots under moa I am guessing buck fever might of had something to do with that I am human an make more than my share of mistakes. I have hunted with a 264 win mag and 257 wby most of the time on whitetail with absolutely no lost animals they all seemed to bleed after being shot and most just feel down this deer didnt. I am not sure i am using the wrong bullet or it didn't do its job i was expecting 3500lbs of energy to have more of a shock to the animal not just burn thru it even if it just hit the soft stuff. It sounds like its not a bullet for the less than perfect shot or marksman like me . You pros can keep makin the perfect shots 100%of the time i am going to see if I can find a bullet and load that works better for me in the real world where people make mistakes .
 
Sorry I get kinda wound up I do appreciate the input I have seen deer drop from one shot and the next shot run several hundred yard hit in what looks to be the same shot or point of impact . I have also seen coyotes with pencil holes in one and the next one cut almost into by the same caliber so I no you need a bone to open most bullets . I guess what i am really wondering is a small really fast bullet like i am used to any better or worse than these 300 gr pills going at a much slower velocity? ON Whitetails
 
Sorry I get kinda wound up I do appreciate the input I have seen deer drop from one shot and the next shot run several hundred yard hit in what looks to be the same shot or point of impact . I have also seen coyotes with pencil holes in one and the next one cut almost into by the same caliber so I no you need a bone to open most bullets . I guess what i am really wondering is a small really fast bullet like i am used to any better or worse than these 300 gr pills going at a much slower velocity? ON Whitetails


I used a 215 SGK in my 338WM. The thing shot flawlessly, and put the animals down. I would guess that if you were to use such a bullet, you would get a more instant opening. The other thing is that you could go to the 225 Hornady SST's and and get good results. This bullet would allow you to go to 1000 for as hard as it can be pushed and hold together in close shots. Hope this helps.

Tank
 
It does indeed just the kind of info i am looking for . I am still not convinced that an Edge isn't overkill on whitetail . It sounds like people are either blowing them to pieces or punching holes through them neither of witch is a very good result for hunting to me .
 
I would say way over kill till a range that you need the shear mass of a 300gr bullet to pound through them and make a hole and still break bone. But if I had one I'd be wackn and stackn deer with it cause I can but I think I would try to rock the Barnes TTSX in a 185 or 225gr, it would be fast and flat without blowing things up and reserve the 300's for LR or elk work.
 
There are a couple things to consider here.

1. Maybe your Edge saved your rear on the poor shot placement? Perhaps if you had been using a lesser rifle you would not have gotten the penetration you did and your deer may easily have covered a mile instead of 1/4 mile. Could have been much worse.

2. We are all humans. If someone tells you they have never made a bad shot they either are flat out lying to your face or they have not shot at much game. I find its usually around 50-50 between these two. Big heavy bullets will get you out of a tight spot better then a light fast bullet, nearly EVERY TIME. That is why the 338 caliber is recommended as minimum for elk at long range.

3. We need to determine what long range hunting is for each specific person as its varies wildly from hunter to hunter. I ask every customer that I talke to that wants one of my rifles alot of specific questions about how they hunt, where they hunt, how far they want to hunt and what they hunt. My recommendations for each customer is generally different. Personally, 500 yards is an easy shot, not bragging, just a fact. I shoot at 1000 yards at least several times a week. I have rifles that I have built in some of the most ballistically potent chamberings on the planet and I know them well. I would call 300 yards and under close range. I would say 300-700 yards is moderate range and 700 to 1000 yards as long range and +1000 yards as extreme range shooting. In my PERSONAL opinion, I have no reason to shoot at game past 1500 yards EVER. Just me.

The 338 Edge with a 300 gr SMK which I prefer over the 300 gr Berger simply because its proven over many years, is a specialty chambering and load designed in my opinion for long to extreme range big game hunting. This combo is not suited for close range hunting(Sub300 yards). It works fine for moderate range hunting but even out to 700 yards, the 225 or 250 gr Accubond would likely be my recommended bullet over the SMK.

At plus 700 yards, hitting the target becomes much more difficult. You want the advantage of the higher BC to help counter windage errors. Again, putting the bullet where you need to is the most important at any range, but at ranges past 700 yards, it becomes dramatically more difficult to do so the bigger bullets with the higher BC helps make this easier. Again, a 338 caliber hole through both lungs equals a big game animal in the back of the truck. A 338 cal hole through one lung gives you a long tracking job. Remember also that an exit in the paunch will almost always seal off instantly with belly fat or other internal organs. The skin around the paunch is also very elastic and often results in very small exit wounds even if the bullet IS fully expanded.

My points are simple, do your best to put your bullet on the mark, use a bullet(Not chambering) that is appropriate for the ranges you will be hunting and the game you are hunting and you will have very few tracking jobs.

I do not believe, IN ANY WAY, that you can be overgunned as long as you use the correct bullet for the job at hand. Here is an example, last fall in Oklahoma on my whitetail hunt. We hunted this big deer for 4 days solid. Knew the area he was at the whole time but never saw him in the food plots. 4th morning he snuck in behind us and we saw him jump into a small patch of bush. I had nothing but my 16 lb Raptor in 338 Allen Xpress loaded with the 300 gr SMK at 2960 fps.

A couple of the guides and the ranch owner pushed through the brush and the big buck came out at around 100 yards at a full run. First shot was a miss, second shot was a miss, by this time the buck was right at 300 yards which we later found out. he was not quatering away very badly, third shot landed just ahead of the ham, took out the spine and exited right on the last couple ribs on the off side. Buck fell to the shot but was not done. He could get up on his front legs. A quick followup shot put a 300 gr SMK through both shoulders and it was over.

P1260364.jpg


Now at 300 yards, this load dumped nearly 4700 ft/lbs of energy into this buck and had I not hit the spine on this deer on the third shot, it would have likely made it over ALOT of ground inspite of OBVIOUS expansion. The follow up shot broke both shoulders and the 300 gr SMK was just under the skin on the off side in a mangled mess of lead and copper but it had done its job perfectly.

Was that the right rifle for the job, certainly not, my lightweight 7mm AM would have been MUCH better for this, simply because the rifle is MUCH better for running shots and the much faster TOF would have helped in hitting this full running buck, BUT, was I overgunned with the rifle I had, certainly not, in my opinion, the SMK performed MUCH better then I was expecting it to as I was asking alot of it at this range.

If you want to shoot at close to moderate range with a 338 Edge, there is no problem at all doing this but you have to put some thought into the bullet your asking to do the work for you. That said, even though I feel one of the Accubonds would have been a much better choice for the range you were shooting, it would not have shortened your tracking job any and possibly it could have even been farther.

We all make a poor shot from time to time, it happens. No one is perfect, NO ONE. But, when we make a mistake and we make a bad shot placement, it would be refreshing to hear more of us blame ourselves then blame the bullet we were shooting.

Also, the Berger bullets are brand new. I have never put one in a big game animal and I have shot several hundred of the 300 gr VLDs already. Until we get a good amount of field data about their use on big game, your taking some what of a chance using them in the field simply because they are not a proven design yet.

Unless your in a position where you know you will be hunting at ranges past 1/2 mile, you may be better served with a lighter bullet but remember that in this class of rifle, the lighter the bullet, especially in a conventional cup jacketed design, generally the less penetration you will get and if you really run up the velocity, that penetration will drop even more. Lots to think about, that is why long range hunting is such a specialized sport. Conventional range hunting, that out to 500 yards, really is not, most anything will work if set up properly, that is not the case for long range hunting at all.

If this sounds like a speech, I am sorry but I get dozens of guys a year saying they had bullet failure or poor bullet performance with a given brand of bullet but then find out later that their biggest problem was shot placement and that does annoy me a bit. As said many times, we all make bad shots from time to time, just own it, there is no reason to blame the bullet that was put in the wrong place to start with.
 
Great post VERY INFORMATIVE I am not trying to cop out of a bad shot i made this is the 1st 338 kill i have made and was really expecting more and not for any good reason except what i have read on the edge . I am fairly new to long range but do have steel gongs out to 950 yds that i have been practicing on for the last 2 months on a regular basis with this gun , I have a 6.5x284 i have shot at this range for a couple years. On calm days i am usally getting close to 1 min or alittle better groups and on winder days 10 to 15 winds up to 1.5 min ( trying to catch simular gust in the wind to shoot). I am very confidate at the range i shot the deer at , I sat down at the bench the next day and put 3 shoots into a 3 " orange dot at 450 so I cant blame my gun either. I have a box blind set up in the flint hills here and can shoot 1100 yds in 2 directions and about 500 one way and 100 the last most of the deer travel from 300 to 700 yds. So maybe i should not change anything yet . I still have one doe tag left .

That is one hell of a deer too . The deer I shot is nothin like that but i"ll see if i cant post a pic of him on here anyway. Deer like you shot are far and few between here I have only killed 1 that scored 183" and several inthe 150 range .
 
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Fiftydriver

MY deer story last year was almost down to the last detail of your OK hunt except i had a AR -10 in .243 with a 10 shot clip and he came busting out at 230yds . My 2nd shot took both lungs out and my 6th shot took out spine right in front of ham like yours 7th shot in the ear . He only scored 154" but he looked like an elk bustin out of that brush! I dont like to shoot running game but the last day of season an hour before dark and we shoot a lot of coyotes on the run you kinda learn the lead on them.
 
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