Do Factory Loads shoot accurately through Ackley Improved (AI) Chambers?

[cdherman]

Title Sums it up....

I am thinking an AI chambering, but I know that potentially someday, someone will not want to handload anymore. I'm an avid reloader, but what about son, grandson etc....

The gun in question has a bad barrel, but is a nice 700 BDL from the 70's that my dad gave me when I was a kid. So its not a gun that will leave the family -- thus my desire to have it chambered in a cartridge that does not absolutely require handloading.

As to shooting factory loads through an AI chamber, I get all sorts of threads when searching the internet. What I have generally read is that, yes, you can shoot them fine and accuracy will be OK, but velocity will likely suffer. And the larger the "jump" in case capacity with the AI version, the more the velocity will suffer....

But there are some posts that indicate accuracy is also off.....

 

[TOM H]

Title Sums it up....

I am thinking an AI chambering, but I know that potentially someday, someone will not want to handload anymore. I'm an avid reloader, but what about son, grandson etc....

The gun in question has a bad barrel, but is a nice 700 BDL from the 70's that my dad gave me when I was a kid. So its not a gun that will leave the family -- thus my desire to have it chambered in a cartridge that does not absolutely require handloading.

As to shooting factory loads through an AI chamber, I get all sorts of threads when searching the internet. What I have generally read is that, yes, you can shoot them fine and accuracy will be OK, but velocity will likely suffer. And the larger the "jump" in case capacity with the AI version, the more the velocity will suffer....

But there are some posts that indicate accuracy is also off.....

I have 35WhelenAI,223AI,222AI,243AI and I can fire a factory case in each chamber but I wouldn't fire factory ammo since most of those are special throated and longer OAL.

You can keep SAAMI spec OAL so that you can fire factory ammo in Ackley chamber but that something you should be asking your gunsmith.

In my 222AI/223AI I have good enough accuracy that I can fireform shooting PD with the AI load and the 35WhelenAI/243AI I fireform cases without a bullet.

In my early years I fireform everything without a bullet figuring I build a Ackley and that's what I want to shoot vs the parent case.

When you build you can pick options and if your rechambering an existing barrel that's been shot and it a factory one you may see different results so it good to get as much information when someone starts talk about the Ackleys. there is lot of posters that tell you everything about the Ackley's but there not shooting them it may be prior good or bad experience but as we know bullets change new powders etc.

Well good luck

 

[varmintH8R]

My personal experience with my 280AI is that accuracy of my fireforming loads was poor. The rifle itself proved to be super-easy for load development, so my personal opinion is somewhat skewed.

If you went 280AI, Nosler is loading factory ammo for it. Whether or not it is the same headspace as "traditional" PO Ackley design is not something I intend to get into. Talk with your smith regarding reaming to the SAMMI 280AI chamber, and maybe you can have your cake and eat it too... An Ackley with factory fodder available.

Good luck with your rebarrel

 

[cdherman]

My personal experience with my 280AI is that accuracy of my fireforming loads was poor. The rifle itself proved to be super-easy for load development, so my personal opinion is somewhat skewed.

If you went 280AI, Nosler is loading factory ammo for it. Whether or not it is the same headspace as "traditional" PO Ackley design is not something I intend to get into. Talk with your smith regarding reaming to the SAMMI 280AI chamber, and maybe you can have your cake and eat it too... An Ackley with factory fodder available.

Good luck with your rebarrel

I am looking at a 6mm Rem AI, aka 6mm Crusader from GAP. There a lot of problems with that choice, but an astute poster from an earlier thread from me noted that since I am have a good 7mm SAUM, a sweet little 6.5x55 sporter, what I really might consider is a 6mm offering.

In 6mm, if you have a long action, you could use the venerable .243 , but the 6mm Rem, based off the old .257 Roberts (which in turn came from the 7x57 Mauser) is interesting. Longer neck. longer COAL. Not a problem with a LA 700.

Of course, quality brass (Lapua etc) is easy with the .243, as are factory loads.

But the lure of something even better calls, thus the desire to play with a 6mm Rem AI. I could handload some pretty nasty loads and at the same time, someone could theoretically drop a factory 6mm Rem into the gun and it would shoot, more or less...

In essence, I want a 6mm gun that allows me to play with it today, and yet someone down the road can just go buy factory and shoot.

.243 Win remains an a option as well, though AI is really not much use there. But its a LA Rem action and that seem such a waste on a .243..... And .243 barrel life gets negative comments as well, though in a hunting rifle, that's not really the issue, usually.....

Thanks for the insights so far....

 

[TOM H]

I am looking at a 6mm Rem AI, aka 6mm Crusader from GAP. There a lot of problems with that choice, but an astute poster from an earlier thread from me noted that since I am have a good 7mm SAUM, a sweet little 6.5x55 sporter, what I really might consider is a 6mm offering.

In 6mm, if you have a long action, you could use the venerable .243 , but the 6mm Rem, based off the old .257 Roberts (which in turn came from the 7x57 Mauser) is interesting. Longer neck. longer COAL. Not a problem with a LA 700.

Of course, quality brass (Lapua etc) is easy with the .243, as are factory loads.

But the lure of something even better calls, thus the desire to play with a 6mm Rem AI. I could handload some pretty nasty loads and at the same time, someone could theoretically drop a factory 6mm Rem into the gun and it would shoot, more or less...

In essence, I want a 6mm gun that allows me to play with it today, and yet someone down the road can just go buy factory and shoot.

.243 Win remains an a option as well, though AI is really not much use there. But its a LA Rem action and that seem such a waste on a .243..... And .243 barrel life gets negative comments as well, though in a hunting rifle, that's not really the issue, usually.....

Thanks for the insights so far....

I understand you have a long action but SAAMI spec for the 6Rem OAL is 2.825" and 243 is 2.710". The 257 may of started with 7x57case but SAAMI spec OAL for the 7x57 is 3.065"vs 2.780" for the 257 Roberts.

If you kept SAAMI spec OAL for the 6RemAI not much benefit in using long action.

 

[coyotekiller82]

In both my AI'd rifles, yes factory loads shoot very accurate!!

I have a 6mmAI and a 260 RemAI, both of which I fireform SAAMI dimensioned brass to the blown out AI dimensioned brass. I have shot some pretty darn small groups while fireforming!

 

[cdherman]

If you kept SAAMI spec OAL for the 6RemAI not much benefit in using long action.

OAL is a SAAMI spec just asking to be broken. That's the whole point of using a long action. I'll likely put a 1:7 or 1:7.5 twist barrel and throat it relatively long, so that my long heavy bullets are not seated way down in the case, taking up case capacity.

That's what I did with my Shilen barrel in 7mm RSAUM -- custom throated to the heavy Bergers. Shooting a 6" group -- at 500 yards, with some wind, off the hood of my truck. Not bad, for a gun I screwed together myself on a Savage action, then bedded into a Boyds stock my self. I'm just learning and having fun....

 

[TOM H]

OAL is a SAAMI spec just asking to be broken. That's the whole point of using a long action. I'll likely put a 1:7 or 1:7.5 twist barrel and throat it relatively long, so that my long heavy bullets are not seated way down in the case, taking up case capacity.

That's what I did with my Shilen barrel in 7mm RSAUM -- custom throated to the heavy Bergers. Shooting a 6" group -- at 500 yards, with some wind, off the hood of my truck. Not bad, for a gun I screwed together myself on a Savage action, then bedded into a Boyds stock my self. I'm just learning and having fun....

It's pretty common to custom throat longer than SAAMI Spec doesn't matter which action is use or what case is used. Only thing I was pointing out you may run into a problem shooting factory ammo accurately.

 

[B23]

I have a 223 Ack Imp that Defensive Edge built me. It's built on a Rem 700 and has a 22in Hart 1-9tw Sendero taper barrel. I don't know exactly what the throat length is but with a Hornady 53gr Vmax, just touching is 2.370 OAL. I gave the builder a box of store bought 223 Hornady Superformance 53gr Vmax to test fire it and zero the rifle at 100yds for me.

Those factory loaded 223 53Vmax have a OAL of 2.238 which is jumping them 127 thousandths to the lands and they shot a .112 3 shot group at 100yds.

 

[BRIT]

I struggled to find half decent Brass for my 25-06 AI so i bought Sako Factory 117 Grain Ammo to Fireform for the Brass. My Smith Chambered -004" as Ackley suggested and the Ammo Chambered snugly. I never checked Velocity but Accuracy was around the Inch. I would have been more than happy to Hunt with it.

Brit.

 

[Sully2]

My 25-06AI shoots std 25-06 ammo very accurately.