Discontinued Berger Ammo 300 Win Mag 215s and industry evolving, new cartridges

CGS371

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Jul 7, 2010
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Western WY
I wanted to start a discussion here, because you all are way smarter than me on this stuff and I'd appreciate your insights and to watch the discussion.

Last year, I helped a buddy put together a 300 WM that shot the off the shelf Berger ammo with 215s extremely well. (One benefit is relative ease of finding 300WM in travels, though not likely Berger). This was terrific. He had accuracy, increased range and say what you will about other Berger bullets, this 215 has pretty well proven terminal ballistics.

Fast forward to this fall when Berger discontinues the offering, as I understand it, because it did not meet SAMMI specifications for 300WM. My initial thought is that we lost something pretty great due to the fact that Berger became part of a bigger company and that bureaucracy, lawyers, and insurance took it away from us. Then, I thought, well SAAMI needs to relax or change spec, or is out dated. Well, both those thoughts are about measures in place to make us more safe. (And less inoperable - have you ever tried to buy 8X57?) And I don't expect them to change, perhaps as much for liability issues as much as safety.

The point or question - Is the only large scale way forward for over the counter ammunition taking advantage of newer projectiles going to be new SAMMI cartridges? I am speaking off the shelf ammo and rifles. Yes, Federal has a Berger 215 offering that I know little about - but does it really optimize the 215 if it is crammed way down in the case? (For now, the answer seems to be handloading and custom rifles. So, is the bigger picture/longer term answer that we need new cartridges? New SAMMI cartridges?
 

257Tony

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If you absolutely rely on factory ammo, and want to shoot extended ranges, the 300 WM is not the best choice right now. He either needs to find someone to load for him, or switch over to 300 PRC.
 

clacka6mm

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Nov 22, 2014
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And the second you believe saami is about safety. The. Moment i call u ignorant and utterly full of ****



BANNED
 
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ShtrRdy

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I think you answered your own question. An example of a cartridge that immediately comes to mind is the 6mm Creedmore versus the .243 Win. The .243 Win in it's SAAMI form is restricted to lighter bullets from a barrel twist definition and overall length definition. The SAAMI specs for the 6mm Creedmoor define the use of faster twist barrels and allowing bullets to be seated way out there - thus paving the way for heavy bullets.
 

CGS371

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Sorry, Clacka6mm, I already admitted you guys were smarter than me. I would like to know what SAMMI is about if you care to explain it to me. Maybe, part of the challenge is that I don't understand SAMMI. Maybe, I am wrong about that being the reason the ammo was discontinued too? I came here to learn from you guys.

Elsewhere, I hear the others saying we need new SAMMI cartridges if we want long bullets, fast twist in over the counter offerings. (I would consider rounds within last 10 years or so as new). I speculate you could make a '243 Win Extra Long' commercial offering only changing spec twist, COAL, etc., so you get VLDs in there (like people do on their customs) but there would be problems with people possibly trying to use in a regular 243 Win?
 

Andrew Massi

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Sorry, Clacka6mm, I already admitted you guys were smarter than me. I would like to know what SAMMI is about if you care to explain it to me. Maybe, part of the challenge is that I don't understand SAMMI. Maybe, I am wrong about that being the reason the ammo was discontinued too? I came here to learn from you guys.

Elsewhere, I hear the others saying we need new SAMMI cartridges if we want long bullets, fast twist in over the counter offerings. (I would consider rounds within last 10 years or so as new). I speculate you could make a '243 Win Extra Long' commercial offering only changing spec twist, COAL, etc., so you get VLDs in there (like people do on their customs) but there would be problems with people possibly trying to use in a regular 243 Win?
You have to make sure the 243 wont chamber because someone will fire it. So in your example actually go shorter and remove case taper to regain capacity, while your at it add a 40* shoulder and ream so 103-115 class bullets are seated with the boat tail and neck junction with a 7 twist and voila what's old is new again.
 

73driver

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Aug 24, 2011
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335
Hornady seems to have solved the saami problem by standardizing cartridges designed to shoot heavy for caliber pointy bullets out of commonly available magazine fed rifles
Who knew that Hornady actually thought out what they doing and designed and specified a better product. Geez and I thought it was just some mumbo jumbo marketing magic that was going on over at Hornady.
 

Pauleye

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Jan 29, 2017
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127
Correct me if I’m wrong, but the 300 WM is spaced on the belt not on the shoulder. I load 300 WM with the 215 Bergers. I use Peterson brass long. No case head separation. If you like the 215 load them😀
 

Lando

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Oct 11, 2009
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Kentucky
I have shot this round for a while and was sad to see it go.

I saved my brass and am going to replicate this round with hand loads this weekend.

I talked to Berger thi week. The 215 and the 185 juggernaut were discontinued as a factory load due to OAL. The 215 bullet is not going away.

These loads at @ 3.6” do not fit in most factory magazines that are not AICS, CIP etc... Therefore the average person shooting most factory rifles could not just buy them off the shelf and have it fit. This leaves customers with a very expensive box of ammo they have to single feed.

since you can’t return ammo this leaves unsatisfied customers that are not happy with Berger and since it doesn’t fit, there are no repeat buyers, therefore low sales.

no conspiracy or seedy lawyers. Just low sales and unhappy customers due to short magazine boxes in factory guns.
 

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