Custom rifle cost going to the moon , when does it end ?

[Ron Milby]

One could look at this the same way with vehicles. A Ford or Chevy can get you from point A to point B the same way a Ferrari and Maserati can. There is quite a difference in price between the alternatives. Brands, R&D, Marketing, Price per value, Customer Service, Status, and other things go into play when people decide on purchasing a vehicle. The same holds true for Custom Rifles.

 

[JMW67]

In some ways. Suppose you by a Defiance action. You are paying for the R&D effort put into creating and building that action, but the cost is amortized over the many thousands of actions they have sold over time. I am guessing that Gunwerkz sales for rifles are much less than Defiance has for their actions given the number of builders using them. This means Gunwerkz has to charge more per item to recoup their R&D costs. At some point, R&D costs have been covered and the costs go down.

Now as for the smiths, I'm as guilty as they are when I do custom consulting. I have over 20 years of very specialized experience in data analysis and when I quote how much I would charge for a project, I rarely take into account any premium I should charge for the experience I have in knowing what is the right way to analyze this data and in my interpretation of the results. I just charge for the time, which due to my experience may, and usually is, less time than someone with less experience. Even though my hourly rate is higher, it still isn't enough to really take into account the experience my customer is getting essentially for free. I imagine most smiths are similar. A company like Gunwerkz can't do that as not charging for that experience means not paying an employee's salary.

I see your point on the number sold

 

[AaronSkipDavidson]

In some ways. Suppose you by a Defiance action. You are paying for the R&D effort put into creating and building that action, but the cost is amortized over the many thousands of actions they have sold over time. I am guessing that Gunwerkz sales for rifles are much less than Defiance has for their actions given the number of builders using them. This means Gunwerkz has to charge more per item to recoup their R&D costs. At some point, R&D costs have been covered and the costs go down.

Now as for the smiths, I'm as guilty as they are when I do custom consulting. I have over 20 years of very specialized experience in data analysis and when I quote how much I would charge for a project, I rarely take into account any premium I should charge for the experience I have in knowing what is the right way to analyze this data and in my interpretation of the results. I just charge for the time, which due to my experience may, and usually is, less time than someone with less experience. Even though my hourly rate is higher, it still isn't enough to really take into account the experience my customer is getting essentially for free. I imagine most smiths are similar. A company like Gunwerkz can't do that as not charging for that experience means not paying an employee's salary.

You are right on. I think most of these guys forget that we have brought some pretty significant advancements to the industry. Our BR rangefinder series was the first in the industry with an onboard ballistic solution. Our Revic PMR is a huge lift and a significant product. It will change the industry. There's lots of other new stuff we are working on and will bring.

 

[crazyhorse]

The market consistently supplies where there is demand. If people weren't buying them they wouldn't have established such a footprint in the industry for the last decade. Gunwerks deserves a lot of the credit for bringing LR hunting into the spotlight it enjoys today.

I've had really good luck spending less than 3k minus optics and consistently received sub-half moa performance with premium components. There's lots of variables involved when pricing a LR rig! My $600ish version of a McMillan or Manners may not be your thing because you want a feature on the $1300 model. A trued version of a R700 action costs substantially less than a Defiance, Bat, Panda, etc. most all of mine came from factory purchases long ago. A Bartlein is $340ish but if you want a Proof carbon its $700+.
There's a huge $ difference depending on preference and that's the beauty of capitalism!

 

[5gauss]

$12,000 for a setup is lala land for me. If you can swing it, cool. Then again people buy bespoke double rifles from H&H for 200k. I'll stick to my factory rifles and occasional custom in the 3k range.

All about $$$$ if you have it to spend..go for it. If it is practical accuracy for long range then you can do WAY better. Whatever floats yer boat. All about what YOU want to accomplish and if you can afford it...

 

[Buck Fever]

i didn't hear it... how is their rifle a better deal at $7000?

This is the issue. Turnkey rifles are not a better deal. They quickly become a company finding people to sell them name parts at a lower rate. Well, a lower rate gets you.....hey this bore looks kinda funky.....oh, put it in that rack. They pay less for our barrels and it probably still shoots.

Or this receiver feels rough with every bolt....just find a bolt that fits in it and put it with those actions over there. They pay much less for our action.

When you are selling to a sole proprietor who has to answer for that one rifle that doesn't shoot, they are much more careful that every gun is best quality work.

This is not a direct comparison but I like some Aero Precision parts for my ARs but not all, so I piece together using parts from different manufacturers, winding up with better guns at lower cost than buying a complete Aero Precision M4E1 or M5E1. I have never found the parts I bought separately to be any less than first quality parts.

In my custom bolt action rifles built up from parts by me, my only disappointment is a chassis made by MPA which has an integrated Arca rail that seems out of spec. Everything else was either first quality or 100% supported by the manufacturer until it was a first quality part (on preorder parts that needed some revisions).

I have never felt like I got second rate parts unless I was specifically buying factory seconds and usually those parts were only cosmetic blems that function perfectly and don't even look blemished after they develop some normal wear.

I'm not saying its impossible to wind up with QC reject parts but I've never seen it. To believe it is common is silly.

Not everything is going to just fall together on your work bench every time but that's a different issue (and largely avoidable).

 

[Allen Kitts]

I have a Gunwerks LR1000 in 7mm LRM and I love it. I am wealthy by no means but I knew what I wanted, I saved for a couple of years, and then I bought it. Was it worth the money, every penny to me and that's really all that matters. To each his own, that what makes America great. We all get to have an opinion.

 

[MAD10]

I am not sure why we are surprised about the cost of some brands of rifles from certain custom shops...people do the same thing with cars, trucks, homes etc even what they order at a restaurant !

How many times have you seen a person with a 2500 HD that doesn't even own a trailer lol? Or owns a 5K sq ft home and they live alone? or a super expensive sports car that never breaks 85 mph?

That same person does not go take a driving course at their local race track or learn how to actually use the trailer braking system. So why should the guy with a $8K rifle go take a shooting course?

Truth be told they do it because they can or want to - obviously no "need" is involved. Personally as far as rifles go I am glad to know my $4K rifles shoot as well as the $8-10K builds. Of course I am not including the cost of scopes in that statement.

 

[freddiej]

I have had one truly custom rifle in my entire life. I have shot 4 of them but owned only one. I remember the exact amount I paid for it back in 2002. the shop charged me $2,592.91 out the door with scope. I provided the Win 70 rifle and the stock I wanted, and scope. I told the guy that helped me what barrel Manufacturer/twist, caliber, muzzle brake, rings, bases, also provided the reamer, 3 pieces of brass to test the head spacing with, and asked them to make it a matte finish. Today I would most likely provide everything for the build and send it to the rifle-smith. I have been seeing these huge dollar rifles showing up. I cannot believe some of the price tags for these things. I must be much more practical than these people. a good hunting rifle will keep 0.500" or smaller with good tuned ammo I can make. a good scope I can use effectively, it should fit me and no one else, it should not exceed the limits of me carrying it and shooting it offhand or off a bi-pod or off my backpack. it should be in a caliber that works for me. I just do not know about some of these rifles that I have been seeing. if you have the money, then get exactly what you want. me I have aspirations of 3 more rifles, 338 W/M with a 26", 1:8" twist barrel and a 4-20 scope, a 270 WSM with a 24", 1:8" or 1:7.5" twist barrel with a 4.5-14 scope, and a 27 Nosler or make the gun I lost a 270 H-mag with a 26", 1:8" twist barrel and a 5-25 VX5 HD scope. like I said. I must be a bit more practical or pragmatic than some of the rifle owners I have been seeing lately.

 

[Deleted member 103481]

I have a Gunwerks LR1000 in 7mm LRM and I love it. I am wealthy by no means but I knew what I wanted, I saved for a couple of years, and then I bought it. Was it worth the money, every penny to me and that's really all that matters. To each his own, that what makes America great. We all get to have an opinion.

Sorry to break this to you Allen, you seem like a nice guy.... but did you know you are stupid and also don't actually use your rifle or have any money to hunt left after your status symbol?

(I'm kidding)

 

[AaronSkipDavidson]

I have a Gunwerks LR1000 in 7mm LRM and I love it. I am wealthy by no means but I knew what I wanted, I saved for a couple of years, and then I bought it. Was it worth the money, every penny to me and that's really all that matters. To each his own, that what makes America great. We all get to have an opinion.

I told you. Our customers are awesome dudes with discriminating taste!

 

[Allen Kitts]

Sorry to break this to you Allen, you seem like a nice guy.... but did you know you are stupid and also don't actually use your rifle or have any money to hunt left after your status symbol?

(I'm kidding)

Apparently you are correct!

 

[tn4lee]

People buy Bentleys, Rolls Royce, and Ferrari. Not because they are better than my Toyota, in fact they aren't. They can, so they do. I have some very accurate rifles. I even contend that most production rifles out shoot most shooters. We sometimes talk about sub- moa and all the accessories but what about the shooter. We are the big flaw. Add a trigger or float a barrel, all kinds of options. But you can't beat good shooting From a good shooter...practice is worth more then the $12k gun. I think $12k for a rifle and good scope is ridiculous, but there are folks who want them and love them. As far as load development, I'm guessing if you are on this forum, you want to.. and enjoy doing your own. Simple answer:"to each their own"

The first line of your Bentleys, Rolls Royce, Ferraris vs Toyota analogy is prompting me to raise my B.S. flag! Hopefully, the remainder of your post is more credible.

 

[ronstone09]

I just saw a new release of a highbred big game rifle from probably THE big boys in the industry . The cost including a 2500.00$ optic is 12500.00$ . I have done my fair share of buying things that I knew were a bit out of the ( practical or common sense range ) because I just wanted it but not to the tune of 12500.00 lol !! To be clear I'm sure it comes with 100 rounds of custom ( tuned ) Ammo for it and we all know the work that goes into that although the load development is the steepest on the first ( set up ) then after that it's probably a little more cookie cutter . I'll be the first to admit these are some of the baddest rifles to ever hit the planet and the detail and designs are AMAZING for sure! I feel a custom build with a premium barrel , stock , trigger , action and optic around 5-6 k is ( fair ) but I also have some factory rifles with a proper tuned load that shot at .250 or better . One in particular I have is a .093 5 shot group at 100 yard and it holds that moa pretty close to 800 so far , I knew they shot well but I'm still on cloud 9 with that one and I promise, that's not the norm for me on factory guns !!
I know these factory rifles most likely will walk significantly more threw a 20 shot string then these premium guns will of course but for most hunting rifles that's not necessarily going to be needed . I have set up several rifles for friends that just want a hunting gun with factory Ammo . I set one rem 700 up with a Leupold VX-3 4.5-14 and found THE factory Ammo that it liked ! On most of these projects I'm able to find Ammo that will shoot .500 or better all for 1800.00$ and it just about holds that all the way to 800. I'm not poking at custom builders ,it is a true art , I'm just asking what your feelings are towards these 10-12000.00$ guns and where the future is headed ( and I'm not talking about 50 bmg or 375 cheytac type guns) With all the modern machining practices, factory rifles have came a long way for sure ! I think we are going to see a swing in the market for gun builders to produce a gun that is a (budget) version . I think these are selling now because of the craze we are in now kinda like in 2008 when desil pickups were grocery getters during that craze that blew up , then desil hit 5.00$ gallon in Comifornia and they were dumped quick ! Is it just me or are these prices crazy ..... but soooo bad a** of a rifle !!

I saw a whitetail guided hunt on TV yesterday that went for $14,000 ! Figure that !

My opinion is that as long as these ultra premium rifles stay in a class of their own, and they don't drive the market up on the 'average' and 'economy' stuff, I am fine with people getting whatever they want. I have noticed that most of the time, when I run across one of these guys/gals at the range with a rifle and the 'Rest of the Shooting System' in a 40 lb case with wheels, I take notice. Not of just how pretty their rifle is, but of how their bipod is on backwards, or their zero stop isn't set, or other signs of them not having a clue how to properly operate their high-dollar rig. Again it's their money, but it makes you wonder why they don't include a multi-day course with the purchase of a rig like that. Besides when my wife sees me watching those TV shows (I do enjoy them) and they advertise the high dollar rig, I just tell her that I am suffering through on my low dollar ($2-3000) rigs!!