Custom action

Discussion in 'Gunsmithing' started by Cricket, Dec 1, 2013.

  1. Cricket

    Cricket Well-Known Member

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    Is there a big difference in say a Borden,stiller action compared to a trued blueprinted Remington 700 action
     
  2. shortgrass

    shortgrass Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely! There wouldn't be much of a market for "custom" if there wasn't.
     
  3. motoxno53

    motoxno53 Well-Known Member

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    What could you reasonably expect from a custom that a good smith can not get you from working a 700?
     
  4. Hired Gun

    Hired Gun Well-Known Member

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    To me a factory rifle is like getting a box with the picture of an airplane on it and when you open it, you get a couple square blocks of balsa wood.

    To duplicate what is coming from the custom action makers CNC machines is cost prohibitive to perform to a recycled 700 action. On a custom the investment is in the action. When you fix up a 700 you just wasted a barrel, lug, trigger and a stock. Then the added cost of welding up a 700 action to convert it to single shot action. Square up the internals, add a nice M-16 extractor, change the bolt handle, bush the firing pin, supply and pin a precision heavy duty lug, bush the bolt, lap the lugs. This all comes executed nicely on custom action. Then getting a larger or longer tang plus heavy duty action body to allow bigger calibers such as the Lapua, 378 Weatherby, Chey Tac and 50 BMG based rounds. In some cases a 700 just can't be used. When you buy a custom you can get exactly what you want right out of the box.
     
  5. Derek M.

    Derek M. Well-Known Member

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    I have both. Quite a few trued 700s and about the same # of custom actions. At the range, I couldn't tell much difference in accuracy. In fact, the 700 action I had to build a 270 for my son was from a new ADL. The bolt was sent to BAT for fluting. The finished product is very easy on the eyes. And it shoots very well, just as well as any of my rifles with Stiller actions. Same is true for my other 700 actions.

    The nice thing about a custom action is it is much easier for the builder to work with as nothing needs to be done with it. I'm not a fan of oversized recoil lugs or "V" shaped recoil lugs. The original Walker design with the straight walls is superior in my opinion for a better fit, better lock, and better bedding.
     
  6. shortgrass

    shortgrass Well-Known Member

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    I've never had or seen a "custom" action where the scope mount holes were not on the centerline. I've seen many Remington 700 actions where at least one was off center. This is not a reason, in itself, to choose "custom" over factory. Overall, any custom I've ever used or seen has been superior in 'straightness', fit, and uniformity to factory. When you 'true' a factory action what you are doing is refurbishing it, hopefully to better specs than it left the factory with. I believe the new 700s are made on multi axis CNC machining centers instead of moving the piece from jig to jig, machine to machine to completion. There's lots of room for errors when you have a human moving parts from jig to jig and having a time requirement on each operation, like the older ones were made. They are 'straighter'now than they've ever been, from what I've seen so far. The problem of 'fit' still comes into play. You have to have an after market bolt to get that 'custom fit'. The 'factory' is made to meet a price, something has to 'give' to meet that price. The 'custom' is made to meet a requirement. That requirement is precision without alteration. I think the question should be, "Can the average shooter see a difference in accuracy between a factory action, trued by a gunsmith, and custom action?".
     
  7. Cricket

    Cricket Well-Known Member

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    So what I am seeing by the time you have ur smith true up and the expense of buying the 700 action it probably pays just to buy a custom action.
     
  8. No Fear in Accuracy

    No Fear in Accuracy Well-Known Member

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    I've read at the benchrest scores and the equipment they used.

    I'd say 70% use custom actions and 30% use Rem 700 or Savage.
    Some say custom is more stiffer than 700. I'm sure it is much stiffer and also they like longer thread to hold heavy barrel compared to 700.

    I'm not sure about clone 700 compared to original 700. Anyone may know the answer?
     
  9. Brewer

    Brewer Well-Known Member

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    I am not sure what smiths charge for chambering and fitting to a custom action but I have a 700 action that Hart is doing (blueprint, bolt and barrel) and he charges $700 to do it all, that includes the barrel. so if you find a used 700 stainless action (.25-06 sps) for $500 (like I did) you have $1200 in it. I am having a stock bedded and a break put on as well as bolt and barrel fluting so its more money, but this is for comparison. you would know what it would cost to buy the action and then have a barrel cut for it. I cant imagine that for hunting even at 1500 yards that a custom action would make that much difference but I don't know, I have never owned one. and, I am not good enough to be as good as my gun is yet, so I have to think about that too.
     
  10. BountyHunter

    BountyHunter Well-Known Member

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    A tricked out 700 that is remotely comparable to a custom will cost as much if not more many times. Plus when you leave the gunsmith it is only worth $450-500 and never as smooth.
     
  11. Derek M.

    Derek M. Well-Known Member

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    My current philosophy is, if you can afford it, go custom. If you can really afford it, go BAT.
     
  12. Spook

    Spook Well-Known Member

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    resale value , bad enough it being a Remington without wondering if the guy that carved on it was competent or a plumber's helper.
     
  13. 300whisper

    300whisper Well-Known Member

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    ^ This...Plus like others have said (using a compentent and technically sound gunsmith) by the time you true everything up and add options on the factory 700 (fluted bolt, custom bolt, different rails, etc.) you have a custom action in and of itself. With a stiller, borden, or BAT you know exactly what you are getting and you dont have the hassle of getting the work done on a factory 700.

    With that being said, I still have no problem going to a smith to work on a rem 700. I think of it more as peice to the puzzle (when building your rifle) in the hobbing of shooting than a pain in the butt. Its all in what you want. I personally believe that a proffessionally tuned remington 700 can keep up with the best custom actions.
     
  14. B23

    B23 Well-Known Member

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    The original poster asked if there is a big difference between a custom action and a Rem 700 that has been blue printed and set up properly. For me the answer would be yes and no.

    Yes, there is a big difference in initial cost of both actions BUT you will have nearly the same amount into the factory Rem 700 action by the time it's all done and, as others have already said, the resale on a full custom rifle will always be higher then a semi custom rifle.

    No, IMO, will there be any noticeable difference in how well either shoots. At least not that the vast majority of us could notice. BUT, and this is just my opinion, there are exceptions to this. One of those exceptions would be if you were going to use a very large and or heavy barrel. I believe a custom action would be better suited in this application.

    I have some of both. I have a few semi customs built on Rem 700's and I have a full blown custom using a BAT action and even though my full custom BAT is silky smooth like no other and looks like a work of art, I can't say it shoots any better than my other semi custom builds that are built around a blue printed Rem 700's.

    This is my take on weather or not to go semi or full custom. If you already have something like a Rem Sendero and you plan on reusing/keeping the stock it came with and staying with the factory trigger, basicly just doing a rebarrel and proper action work, I would have no concerns and you would save yourself some money. BUT, if you wanted to have a rifle built and everything was going to be custom/aftermarket, at this point I would only use a custom receiver. Not because I was concerned it would shoot better but that it would retain it's value better. Stiller has their actions at such an affordable level that it makes it really hard to even consider using a donor gun anymore.