Coyote Rifle Twist Rate and Bullet Weights

[Grazing Bit]

Along with another purchase, I plan on buying a 20" barrel AR-15 mainly for coyote hunting. The rifle that caught my eye the most is a Colt Ar-15 A4 with a flat earth MOE furniture, MBUS rear sight, and flat top: not a rifle designed especially for predators, but certainly accurate enough for the task, and lighter than basically ever predator Ar of the same barrel length that I've seen. However, as lighter bullet weights are usually used for coyotes, the Colt's 1:7 twist rate began to worry me. As I intend to keep the hides, people suggested that I mainly use bullets in the 35-50 grain range, weights that I am told a 1:7 twist rate can overstabilize and even spin apart. Therefore, I've been considered using 55-69 grain bullets as a solution, but am afraid they would leave an exit hole causing unnecessary hide damage. What do you guys/gals have to say? Are those bullet weights light enough for coyotes or should I consider another rifle (I have been considering a Smith and Wesson Performance Center M&P15 with 1:8 twist, which seems to be have a wider bullet range than both 1:7 and 1:9 rates, if 1:7 turns out to be to fast)?
P.S. I'm considering using Varmageddon and/or Matchking bullets.

 

[HARPERC]

I have a 1:8 twist Tikka. I haven't seen any problems with the lightweights. It's hard for me to accept the .223 spinning bullets apart, but I've seen other combo's that surprised me. I can accept they may "splash" at times causing a non-lethal wound.

If you go to the home page here, look under coyote articles, and find one called Fur Loads, by Tim Titus. It's a good base for discussing coyote loads in general.

 

[Catahoula]

I have killed coyotes with a few different twist barrels. What bullets have you had luck with in the past? You should pick a bullet that will do what you want & then pick the twist. My bear hunting buddy has an AR-15 chambered in 223 & the 60 V-Max is working great on coyotes. Appears to be a fur bullet so far. When the fur gets good we will find out. I killed one while trying to call a black bear 2 weeks ago & the fur is still really short.
Good luck, Kirk

 

[Grazing Bit]

Actually, and I kind of thought it would be obvious by my absolute ignorance on all matters coyote hunting, I am just now getting into coyote hunting. For me, a coyote gun has always just been whatever gun ypu happened to be clostest to, so I've no idea about how different varmit bullets perform. This will be the first rifle I've purchased (aside from rimfires) that is not intended for use on big game which to eat. I hope to get to some real experience coyote hunting this winter with the rifle I purchase, and, whether it be a Colt or Smith and Wesson, I think it's looking like I might not go with matchkings or varmageddons and try out some 60 grain V-maxs first.

 

[HARPERC]

..... and try out some 60 grain V-maxs first......

That was good advice-the 53 gr V-Max is available as well.

 

[westcliffe01]

Grazing Bit, your location, pressure for food, habituation to hunters will all determine how close you can get the coyotes to your position (or the other way around). The average range for a shot is going to determine the best rifle to use. If you could get them close, then a combination 223/12ga may be ideal. Some hunters carry a rifle and a shotgun.

I personally can never get a close shot. The most recent one was 250 yards. Have been as far out as 430 yards. The 223 is a rather puny round to be shooting those distances and small light bullets (I started out shooting 55gr Vmax) can be blown off course by 3-4 feet at 300 yards.

I have settled on a 243Win. Mine has a custom 1:8 twist 26" barrel and you can shoot 87gr Vmax to 107gr SMK bullets from it. Doubt a coyote hit with a 107gr SMK will yield a good fur, but the coyote sure will be dead and it will buck the wind a heck of a lot better than a 55gr or less 223 bullet.

So you will have to answer your own question regarding the most suitable weapon / load. Figure out how educated they are (and yourself) and use rifles that you have. If you have a hard time hitting them with a 223 at extended range you just might want to use something better...

 

[Catahoula]

Hey Grazing Bit, I have years of coyote hunting/calling under my belt. If I can be of any help just let me know. I have had some excellent teachers.
Good luck, Kirk

 

[Grazing Bit]

Thanks for the advice westerncliff, but fur friendly really is a requirment. Maybe for longer shots I could use 77 grain matchking BTHPs. I wonder what that would to hides, though.

Catahoulah, I appreciate your helpfulness. Someone with your experiance could definitely help me lots.

 

[westcliffe01]

So what your saying is that if you cant get them in range of a sub 55gr pill then you will pass ? Maybe you should consider the 204 Ruger. It is also a small bullet but at least it has a bit of powder behind it, unlike the 223. Might not be available in the AR platform but that is no great loss... Save yourself some money...

 

[Grazing Bit]

I didn't say I was going to use sub 55 grain bullets. The main questions that I'm asking with this thread is if 55 and up grain bullets destroy hides. And a few post back I said I'd be trying 60 grain V-MAXs before anything else.

 

[westcliffe01]

The 75gr HPBT which is ballistically superior to the 55gr Vmax typically left about a 2" exit wound, so I would say they are no good for fur. 95gr Berger VLD's and Hornady 95gr SST's leave an even bigger exit wound. There is just not much depth to a coyote unless the entry point is in the chest going rearwards or at the base of the tail going forward.... I do not have results for the 87gr Vmax from the 243 since I have not exhausted my supply of 95gr VLD's yet..

For me it is more important to hit and kill the coyote than any concerns regarding fur. Skinning out coyotes, unless you use the air inflation method, is quite the task too and my time is worth more than I could ever get for a hide. Especially when you are doing full head skinning and trying to get the pads on the feet etc.

 

[Grazing Bit]

75 grain BTHPs from a 243 or 223? Because when I mention 77 grain matchkings I was still talking about 223s.

 

[westcliffe01]

I started after the coyotes with a Savage 24 - 222Rem + 20ga smooth bore combination. I loaded the 222rem with 55gr soft point bullets and with the 1:12 twist, that was as heavy as it could go and was only about 1.5moa at 100 yards. But I never had anything come in even close to 100 yards and missed everything out at 250+ yards, so something had to change.

Next up was a Rem 700 in 223 with a 1:12 twist barrel (did not really know about barrel twist then, all I knew was it was an SPS model with a 26" barrel and the 223 held more powder, so it had to be better, right ? Fixed the crap plastic stock and got a more "serious" scope (Nikon Monarch 2 3-12x42) and it was shooting 55gr Hornady Superformance varmint with 55gr Vmax into 1/2" at 100 yards. I was pumped, I was going to show those dogs.... Hit a couple, missed a few. The ones I hit at 250-300 yards ran far enough to where they exited the property and I couldn't recover them. Set up some larger targets at 350 yards and found just how far the 55gr bullets drifted with a breeze blowing (more than 2 ft...). It is an undulating landscape so wind is seldom steady and varies based on direction and how deep you get into the hollows. I discovered that I could not go heavier with the bullets (started figuring out some ballistic basics) based on the rifling, so ditched that and got a Savage 10 with a 1:9.25 twist.

With the savage, I never shot anything but 75gr Superformance match HPBT. Right out the box it was a 1/2 MOA rifle (model 10PC with heavy 20" barrel). With that, the wind drift was reduced by 50% compared to the 55gr Vmax. Killed a few coyotes with it. The coyotes still alive on the sheep farm knew to stay way back and I never got any shot under 250 yards and I decided that I would be better served with the 243. Got a model 12 VLP with the 26" barrel and killed a couple of coyotes with it, but it would not shoot Bergers, so I swapped the barrel for an 8 twist Shilen. Could not be happier with it now, except that my next one might be a little lighter...

Have never shot anything lighter than 95gr from my 243. The whole point is to be able to shoot the highest BC one can, to get the least wind drift and highest energy delivered to the target. The difference in capability between a 223 and the 243 is huge. There are people hunting cow elk at 600 yards using the same outfit I am using for coyotes, but just remember that the vital zone on a coyote is a LOT smaller than a deer or an elk and they will VERY seldom stand still and give you a broadside shot. Usually your shooting window is just a couple of seconds, at least here in the midwest...

 

[westcliffe01]

I see Grafs has Hornady 75gr Amax bullets. You might consider those. They were not available when I was using the 75gr match ammo. I do believe that the polymer tip will help with expansion, compared to the thick jacket match ammo. My experience was that the HPBT tumbled but did not break up that much. If it hit a bone, then it was mainly the bone fragments that were responsible for the large exit wounds. If you went for a lung shot there was less chance of a huge exit wound than on a shoulder shot. But also the possibility that the coyote may run far enough that you may not find it. Especially when there is no snow on the ground.